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comments on this story
'sick' teachers close 6 tusd high schoolsforty percent of the teachers in tucson unified school district called in sick friday, forcing closure of at least six high schools, district officials said.
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1. comment by jose j. (#2238) — september 14,2007 @ 5:23am
rating: 12 thumbs down
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they are apparently getting too many benefits now, that 500 can take fridays off.
2. comment by francis w. (#6565) — september 14,2007 @ 6:40am
rating: 10 thumbs down
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and the gang mentality shows itself again. no wonder it's so prevalent among our youth with the teachers setting an example like this. real pros.
3. comment by gary lee n. (#3558) — september 14,2007 @ 6:49am
rating: 15 thumbs up
i think the teachers are right to do this "sickout". todays kids get their "mentality" from people like paris hilton, other celebs and sports figures, not from their teachers. teachers deserve way more than they currently make. i mean, my god, they are the ones who teach our kids, and try to shape them into intelligent, educated and hopefully mature individuals. in my opinion, it's the teachers who should be making these multi-million dollar salaries, they're job is way more important than some drunk celeb or sports figure! lee
4. comment by joyce w. (joyw) — september 14,2007 @ 6:54am
rating: 25 thumbs up
as a parent of my 25, 24, 22 year children that attended tusd for 18 years i support our teachers fully! volunteering for 16 yrs it was my observation that our teachers get extremely low pay, little respect, no protection from the district powers that be. there are too many administrators-paper pushers in the district office getting high salaries. come on mr superintendent have a heart! we expect out teachers to be educators, counsellors, social workers, and even parent them. these kids are our future. no wonder many veteran educators are retiring.
5. comment by merle b. (merlebreiland) — september 14,2007 @ 6:56am
rating: 15 thumbs down
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having a "sickout" is hardly professional behavior. this sets an extremely poor example to our young. the union mentality reduces all members to the lowest common denominator.
several states are now instituting merit pay structures for their teachers and the grades of their students are improving. those teachers that are innovative and produce results receive the increased pay while those who don't remain the same and in some cases leave. of course the nea is very opposed to this plan demonstrating that they have no interest in improving the educational system.
those teachers that participate in the "sickout" should be locked out and replaced with those that are professional.
6. comment by bill d. (#1486) — september 14,2007 @ 7:08am
rating: 12 thumbs up
merle, where are you going to get the replacements?
7. comment by merle b. (merlebreiland) — september 14,2007 @ 7:17am
rating: 7 thumbs up
if merit pay is instituted the teachers who have left the profession will return as they will then realize that they, as individuals can be recognized and the pay be raised accordingly.
8. comment by boy u. (#2612) — september 14,2007 @ 7:32am
rating: 11 thumbs down
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it's funny to hear teachers say " you can't put a price on children's education". well, it looks like you can...it's 1.5%.
9. comment by m v. (#5030) — september 14,2007 @ 7:41am
rating: 17 thumbs up
again #1 & #2, why would you think that these teachers don't deserve more than 1%. this is their last resort because their board and administration refuse to negotiate a livable wage for them. i don't see you knocking doctors or lawyers for how much money they make. these teachers paid a lot of money to go to college to get educated so that they too could be educators. quit blaming teachers for setting a bad example. if you parents teach them at home then there should be no problem, but of course there are so many parents who leave it up to the schools to teach their children during the day and the tv to entertain when they get home; spending no quality time with their own children. these are the people who cry foul! support the teachers! they deserve the pay for all the bulls$#@$t they have to put up with during the day teaching our children. maybe not your child, but there are plenty of them who make up for your "good student".
10. comment by susan m. (#5613) — september 14,2007 @ 7:50am
rating: 7 thumbs up
hurray, lee, i agree with you.
11. comment by kreg o. (#3798) — september 14,2007 @ 8:03am
rating: 15 thumbs up
a 1.5 percent raise doesn't even keep up with inflation, so if these professionals keep working for the system, they're in reality, losing money by rising prices, ie, food, energy, home costs and health care. this board needs to come to terms with reality and give them a livable wage!
12. comment by thomas w. (sugardaddy) — september 14,2007 @ 8:04am
rating: 10 thumbs down
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the "sick" teachers should need to show proof of illness to be paid for the time off. that should end the "sick out". it should'nt be a problem since they "care" so much about the students.
13. comment by keith r. (dracorat) — september 14,2007 @ 8:13am
rating: 13 thumbs up
apparently the message is starting to go through. it's no coincidence that they are increasing their offer.
good for you, teachers!
14. comment by francisco l. (#1660) — september 14,2007 @ 8:15am
rating: 2 thumbs up
don't take it that will only cover the retirement.
15. comment by francisco l. (#1660) — september 14,2007 @ 8:17am
rating: 8 thumbs up
the retirement for all of pfieffers double dipping buddies.
16. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 8:25am
rating: 23 thumbs up
i don't get where all this hostility towards teachers comes from. teachers work hard in a noble profession yet many people here are like, "how dare they ask for more money". why is wanting to be paid more such a sin? every one of us would do everything in our power to make more money at our jobs, why not teachers?
is it because everyone realizes what an impact they have on our kids? some comments here seem to be worried about the example set for the students by teachers calling in. if that's the case, and we agree that teachers play a prominant role in shaping our kids lives, then i would pay top dollar to ensure my kids had the best educators possible.
and i don't buy the whole 9 month work year thing for a few reasons. 1) teachers work 213 days a year compared to about 248 days for a "regular" job. do the math.(regular job 5 days a week x 52 weeks = 260 days). minus two weeks vacation and christmas and thanksgiving.
it's a 7 week difference that teachers fill with workshops and trainings they don't get paid for.
2) nobody gets on firefighters for working a few days a week while they lounge around the firehouse. (for the record i use them only to make my point)
so support our teachers, pay them more, and we might see a huge difference in the quality of education our kids receive!
17. comment by grey s. (bullpen) — september 14,2007 @ 8:28am
rating: 17 thumbs up
i support the teachers. they should at least get a contract of 15% over the next five years - 3% per year. and that would even be paultry considering inflation averages (if you can trust the figures given) 2 to 2.5% per year.
my only gripe with education is the revisionist history being taught and the idolizing of liberalism
however, this has more to do with the mindset of administration and the system itself, not the teachers as individuals.
remember teachers, the people who are screwing with your dontract in tusd are largely democrats!
18. comment by thomas w. (sugardaddy) — september 14,2007 @ 8:33am
rating: 4 thumbs down
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i'm not saying teachers dont deserve more money they do thats a job i dont want. but to teach them if you dont get your way dont show up that is a paris hilton type of lesson.
19. comment by boy u. (#2612) — september 14,2007 @ 8:34am
rating: 5 thumbs down
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11. dont talk to me about working for inflation... i work for the county so not only am i paying my self in taxes my last raise was .05%. i didnt complain, i sucked it up and was greatful for a little bit of nothing.
20. comment by david o. (specdrom) — september 14,2007 @ 8:35am
rating: 5 thumbs down
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heres an idea on how to get quality educators without the drama, lets hire teachers from mexico, they will do the job that the us teachers wont...beside, the teachers union supports amnisty...lets give it to em.
21. comment by ali f. (#4018) — september 14,2007 @ 8:36am
rating: 6 thumbs up
the two teachers who spoke on channel 4 last night did't speak very well. i believe they should receive merit raises based on performance, but the union would never go for that.
22. comment by boy u. (#2612) — september 14,2007 @ 8:36am
rating: 1 thumb up
and i can at 28 years old still remember the teachers that didnt give a crap about teaching. and some teachers are not worth 1.5% then and now.
23. comment by mb s. (italiana) — september 14,2007 @ 8:36am
rating: 4 thumbs up
so support our teachers, pay them more, and we might see a huge difference in the quality of education our kids receive
-------------------------
totally agree with this comment, i support our kids roles models, so my kids are not going to school today and i'm sure teacher's will win this and tusd will learn a lesson!
24. comment by grey s. (bullpen) — september 14,2007 @ 8:41am
rating: 5 thumbs up
#19 you got a raise of 5 100th's of one percent?? - never heard of such a thing.
#20 you have a good point there. teachers need to re-think their politics as a whole. as it is, i automatically assume a teacher is a liberal democrat and feel less inclined to support their cause, but there is always hope. the best teachers i had who had a profound influence on my life bucked the trend toward liberalism and defended conservative values.
25. comment by mb s. (italiana) — september 14,2007 @ 8:43am
rating: 11 thumbs up
everybody here that disagree should spend a day at a classroom as a substitute then..........
26. comment by boy u. (#2612) — september 14,2007 @ 8:45am
rating: 3 thumbs down
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yup. 0.5 peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeercent.
27. comment by george c. (georgec2) — september 14,2007 @ 9:11am
rating: 6 thumbs up
why our education system stinks - because the government agendas are behind it. your child does not matter. if he/she did, they would be succeeding in school. read the pdf file (google it) the dumning down of america.
homeschool if you can. since when did 4 tvs in the house become more important than our children? they don't need "stuff" they need parents.
what is sensitivity training
by dr. gerald l. atkinson
copyright 18 july 1999
after lewin came to america in 1933, his work, the topology of psychology, launched what became known as the 'topology group,' a band of leading social psychologists.
[the root of the problem]
under the cover of studying prejudice in children, primarily anti-semitism (which was a hot topic, with world war ii in progress), he launched a host of well-funded studies that eventually led to the first american-based high-stress, spirit-breaking, encounter-style, behavior modification facility, the national training laboratory (ntl) in bethel, maine. the ntl later became formally aligned with the national education association (nea).
this and lewin's 'sensitivity training' changed america's educational system and civil society forever as acceptance of 'encounter' techniques by supposed bastions of the education establishment like the nea, the education department, and even many churches served as further incentive to produce a new kind of child of the future, in which the rights of the child, as set forth in the famous document by the united nations, superseded the rights of the parent and other adults. these rights, of course, included sexual and other 'liberation' that pushed children into adult roles before they were ready and without the maturity or guidance to assume such roles.
we may recall from news reports that first lady hillary rodham clinton continued this effort by strongly advocating early sexual training and liberation for children in her speeches to the women's forum in beijing, china, in 1997 [4].
4) atkinson, gerald l. "the new totalitarians: bosnia as a mirror of america's future"
kurt lewin was a primary figure in the wartime research that was later translated into the techniques used today in 'sensitivity training.' the only comprehensive biography on lewin available anywhere was written by alfred jay marrow [5]. this book describes kurt lewin as the key link in the frankfurt school/tavistock migration to america.
tavistock mind control techniques to destroy america
one of the goups that went through the ntl mill in the 1950s was the leadership of the national education association, the largest organization of teachers in the united states.
thus, the nea's outlook has been "shaped" by tavistock, through the ntl. in 1964, the ntl institute became a direct part of the nea, with the ntl setting up "group sessions" for all its affiliates. with funding from the departnent of education, the ntl institute drafted the programs for the training of the nation's primary and secondary school teachers, and has a hand as well in developing the content of educational "reforms," including obe.
also known as the "international institute for applied behavioral sciences", this institute is a brainwashing center in artificial stress training whereby participants suddenly find themselves immersed in defending themselves against vicious accusations.
ntl takes in the national education association, the largest teacher group in the united states. while officially decrying "racism", it is interesting to note that ntl, working with nea, produced a paper proposing education vouchers which would separate the hard-to-teach children from the brighter ones, and funding would be allocated according to the number of difficult children who would be separated from those who progressed at a normal rate.
28. comment by merle b. (merlebreiland) — september 14,2007 @ 9:19am
rating: 1 thumb up
i agree that teachers are presently underpaid and should be paid more based on merit not under some union agreement that reduces all to the lowest achiever.
the nea has done more to undermine the teaching profession then any other organization.
29. comment by holly c. (holly) — september 14,2007 @ 9:25am
rating: 3 thumbs down
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this idea of threatening and bullying management by staging a walk-out or pretend sick day is like terrorism and should not be negotiated. these tactics have all but collapsed detroit and the american car companies that are now desperately trying to recouperate. i wouldn't want that mentality teaching my kids! it's already been destructive to our countries whole education system for decades, and is a key problem with it.
the entire conversion of unions from their original purpose to one of bullying management, regardless of productive merit, into increasing wages and benefits is unethical and despicable. it's also destructive of the free market system our country has thrived upon from its inception because it was designed to reward quality productivity.
these school-teachers' tactics only breed decreased quality by rewarding child-like tantrum behavior. i don't care to see my taxes going for these coercive tactics!
great teachers should be greatly rewarded, just as great street sweepers and great ceos should be. if a teacher feels underpaid here, they may go elsewhere--that's what'll "teach administrators a lesson."
(btw, i have two great teachers in my immediate family. neither would subscribe to this behavior.)
life's tough; the tough make it go right! and they reap just rewards, not stolen ones.
30. comment by gene g. (gene) — september 14,2007 @ 9:32am
rating: 16 thumbs up
i have spend many days in a classroom. i have no problem with teachers getting more, as soon as the administration has the right to fire the teachers that are not doing their job.
how may teachers feels this way??????
31. comment by dave k. (#833) — september 14,2007 @ 9:34am
rating: 5 thumbs up
it always amazes me how a person will degrade themselves with a negative response to a subject they know little about.
teachers understand that when they get into the profession the will not get paid very much in the early years. this is expected and accepted to a certain extent. these young teachers struggle to maintain a normal healthy lifestyle on such a low wage. but most of them manage. as a teacher one of the expectations is that your pay check will increase each year. that each year will will get a little easier. but when retirement goes up, insurance goes up and your employer offers you an insulting raise you rightly will get upset. especially when you know your check will actually be smaller than it was last year. then you have to deal with inflation, it really puts things into perspective.
on top of all of this, you have an employer that has the money to give you the raise you deserve. the employer would rather spend the money to higher top executives or assistant superintendants at 4 times your pay.
i think teachers or any profession in their position would have the right to be upset and take a stand.
32. comment by holly c. (holly) — september 14,2007 @ 9:34am
rating: 2 thumbs down
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countries = country's
33. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 9:37am
rating: 15 thumbs up
funny how people applauded the students who walked out of class last year to protest the crackdown on illegal immigration. the news made them out to look like heroes and very "with-it".
now our teachers walk out to protest unfairness and they're being barbequed by everyone. makes me sick.
34. comment by holly c. (holly) — september 14,2007 @ 9:37am
rating: 9 thumbs up
dave #31 -- it isn't "the teachers" -- it's the system they are now forced to participate in. that system will ruin them and all they're beautiful dreams of becoming great teachers.
35. comment by holly c. (holly) — september 14,2007 @ 9:41am
rating: 6 thumbs up
blacksox, i'm afraid if you're feeling sick about it all, you're not being objective. the system is screwed up and it'll require intelligence and objective ingenuity to unscrew it, not emotion. (one of the points made, i believe, by george c. above).
36. comment by thomas w. (sugardaddy) — september 14,2007 @ 9:46am
rating: 5 thumbs up
if the students they teach do consistently well pay them more. if the students they teach do consistently poor fire them. simple as that. if the "sick" teachers today dont agree i hope they do as well as the raytheon strikers.
37. comment by monica a. (poeticjustiz38) — september 14,2007 @ 9:46am
rating: 1 thumb down
as a parent of two tusd students, i disagree completely that all teachers should get the same raise. not all of them are as productive as others. i really hate to see someone get the same raise as someone who doesn't give 100% in the classroom everyday. i have ghosted my children in an attempt to see for my own person experience if they all give 100%. and lets be honest, they do not. maybe 2 or 3 of the 7 teachers my sons have actually care. you can't tell me they all love their jobs? they don't. i think raises should be based on individual performance. last year one of my sons was shoved by a teacher and called some nasty racial slurs. she got suspended for 3 days? thats it! i got a pathetic phone call from the vice principle, who sounded like he was reading a script and how the situation had been taken care of? he was uneducated and had no people skills. and for all you out there who plan to respond saying my son obviously did something to provoke her. thats a bunch of crap. i am not one of those parents who thinks there child can do no wrong, believe me, i know what they are capable of. far from angels. but give me a break. they all do not deserve a raise. no one gets a cost of living and a merit raise anymore. if our kids were excelling and making national news on how high there scores are, give them money. but show us parents you take your job seriously and maybe someone will listen. i hate seeing that my childrens education is a paycheck. i bet these teachers would be the first to call if there power went out and they wouldn't get power until the works came back from striking? oh maybe they need to prove themselves? they make students do it to get decent grades, why shouldn't they do the same?
38. comment by holly c. (holly) — september 14,2007 @ 9:47am
rating: 5 thumbs up
dave, no argument with your:
"i think teachers or any profession in their position would have the right to be upset and take a stand."
just so they don't do it by punishing the children.
39. comment by ron j. (ronjon) — september 14,2007 @ 9:48am
rating: 5 thumbs up
take back your childs education. split tusd 3 ways. cap non teaching salaries at $60k. let teachers share balance of funds. freeze, and balance budgets for 5 years. then examine results. you can do it better, cheaper.
40. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 9:52am
rating: 4 thumbs up
holly, of course there is no quick fix solution. but sentiment is what starts anything in motion.
i'm really dumbfounded by the anti-teacher sentiment that seems to have oozed it's way into our culture. now we have people who think teachers are over-paid because they are bad teachers and/or they only work 9 months a year. they are misinformed obviously, but i want to know where this teacher hating is coming from. i remember most of my teachers as willing to go the extra mile for any of their students, which is more than i can say for some parents i know.
41. comment by paul c. (guborpolice) — september 14,2007 @ 9:55am
rating: 10 thumbs up
i fine it disgusting that tusd is requiring students to still show up, i know it's so they get their atendence money from the government, but it says "i dont care if you get an education just as long as we get our money".
42. comment by holly c. (holly) — september 14,2007 @ 9:55am
rating: 0 thumbs up
monica, you're 100% right. well said. when education was stolen from the private sector, it began its decline.
in any situation like this, trace it back to when it was last doing well, find out what was done to change that and figure out how to bring the situation up to date while reversing the major erroneous change . . . that's what is needed. but, this won't likely happen because the nea is like apron-strings kids are afraid of letting go of.
it is my understanding that charter schools are trying and with some success.
43. comment by grey s. (bullpen) — september 14,2007 @ 9:57am
rating: 0 thumbs up
29 philisophically i agree with you holly, but the dye has already been cast with respect to wage and compensation bargaining. in the legally entangled, micro-managed america of today, these teachers must stay with the herd or be trampled under foot by the mess thats been created. as i said earlier, my first impression when meeting an educator is to assume they are liberal and vote democrat - and can't help but find it ironic that most of their woes in education come from the left ref:#27 above.
in short, i think we're past the point of no return in regards to this mess. i can only hold out hope that teahers, as individuals, begin to re-think their politics - then they may find more support from the community that matters - not the empty can, noise making liberals.
there is nothing more annoying than sending your kids to school for an education, and then having to help them hold their values in spite of the socialist agenda being forced upon them by the education system.
but clearly, i don't blame the teachers as individuals. this socialist agenda has been promulgated for many years now, and they too are products of it. logic and truth always brings the kids with half a brain back to good values, they just need someone to provide it to them. the socialist ideals will one day be challenged and defeated or we'll lose the whole ball game.
in the interim, i think anybody trying to grub out a living should be compensated fairly - including raises being given to off-set inflation at the least.
44. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 9:57am
rating: 6 thumbs up
thomas, the only problem with your idea is that it would be making your livelyhood dependant on how classrooms full of minors who may have learning disabilities, language barriers, home or social problems perform on tests. if that were the case, nobody would teach. not for what they're getting paid.
45. comment by maryanne p. (mpomeroy) — september 14,2007 @ 10:01am
rating: 8 thumbs up
our nation has a proud history of righting wrongs through protests. beginning with the boston
tea party, womens's suffrage, civil rights, the viet nam war.
teachers, you are heroes, in many ways. don't settle too soon!
you have the power and the integrity. use it. just stick together.
i salute you!
46. comment by peter n. (tbp) — september 14,2007 @ 10:02am
rating: 5 thumbs up
people who use their rights to organize against injustice are not gangs they are called patriots.
jose and francis must taken more than fridays off when they covered civics in school. get off your high horses and try to think of more than your limited perspective.
47. comment by holly c. (holly) — september 14,2007 @ 10:03am
rating: 5 thumbs up
blacksox, i hear you. as i said, it isn't the teachers.
i've got two teachers in my family whom i know to be wonderful people with huge hearts who'd do it for free (of course, not really--it's just that's how much they love it and are meant to do it)!
nurses have been in a similar boat around the country at various times. i am one, and will never allow myself to be drawn into the trap that has unfortunately befallen the education system.
this quagmire is about as easy to fix as our quagmire government and tax codes! but . . . not impossible.
48. comment by grey s. (bullpen) — september 14,2007 @ 10:12am
rating: 5 thumbs up
there is a problem with merit raises based on student performance. not all classes and students are equally comparable - and never will be no matter how much money and social engineering is thrown at it. one teacher may have a class full of high iq students, while another teacher of equal or greater ability has a class full of no brainers. guess who gets the merit raise and who gets threatened????
what a mess huh!
we, as a society, just can't speak or stomach the truth anymore.....
49. comment by boy u. (#2612) — september 14,2007 @ 10:15am
rating: 2 thumbs down
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looks like tpd have been dispatched to carson middle school. if the tv show kid nation can start a nation then i'm sure then can teach eachother.
50. comment by holly c. (holly) — september 14,2007 @ 10:17am
rating: 4 thumbs up
grey, i hear you, too. you are right. but . . . i'm an optimist. return to a healthy successful education system is possible, i believe, but may be very slow in coming and certainly only after long, hard work. it is too bad some people misunderstand and blame teachers, and others misunderstand and think that everyone who disagrees with walk-out tactics believe the teachers are bad people and are to blame. not at all!
successful protests can't be staged on invalid principles. ron j's got an idea in the right direction probably--question is, how do we carry it off and make ideas along those lines happen?
51. comment by arizona b. (prisoner) — september 14,2007 @ 10:17am
rating: 10 thumbs down
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fire everyone who called in sick!
these teachers are truly showing their lack of professionalism and how much they honestly don't care about their students. most of them are failures anyway. just look at the number of student who graduate from high school and can hardly read, write or balance a checkbook.
a truly professional teacher would remain in the classroom and find other methods to grieve their salary issues.
52. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 10:22am
rating: 4 thumbs up
based on past performance, the quality of education isn't going to be any different today than any other day.
53. comment by maryanne p. (mpomeroy) — september 14,2007 @ 10:23am
rating: 7 thumbs up
citizens!
join the protest. keep your students home.
teachers and districts are in gridlock because of no child left behind. this law was written specifically to ensure that school will fail by people who want to destroy the public schools and turn it into a private venture.
public education is the cornerstone of our democracy and it is becoming less and less available to the public.
nclb has a one mold for all mentallity. it makes all those who have other important talents feel like failures. one cannot be surprised at the anger of students in such a system. the results of this we know all too well. all of our students are important and valuable.
public education is in trouble, but it is not the teachers fault it is the enormous bureacracy that keeps measuring our kids by numbers that mean little. our districts are thwarted in their efforts to do what they know is best for our students, they are too busy meeting all the red tape of nclb.
tusd administrators, be glad your teachers have the courage to do what they are doing. if you do the same with nclb and education will be better off.
all educators, i applaud you and thank you for your courage.
54. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 10:35am
rating: 1 thumb down
until teachers unions agree to let their members be evaluated and fired, i wouldn't pay them another dime. fact is, they are doing a piss poor job of educating our children and in the real world, you perform first then ask for more money, not the other way around.
as for the administration, yea a top to bottom revamp of the broken and failed (not failing) public school system is in order.
55. comment by c m. (cm) — september 14,2007 @ 10:36am
rating: 3 thumbs up
#48 grey,
it's good to hear from a consertive that doesn't just spout the party line. i am a former teacher (middle-of-the-road-reagan-democrat)and i have to say that this idea that teachers are all liberals trying to teach a socialist agenda just makes me laugh. i would agree that at the college level, there are many professors with agendas, but in secondary school, ther are very few. i'm sure there are teachers that do this, but the vast majority are only interested in helping kids to succeed.
56. comment by boy u. (#2612) — september 14,2007 @ 10:40am
rating: 7 thumbs up
good job mike. i wish we had the right to fire here within the county if the employees' eval is not up to standard. they used to mean a lot due to the fact that we would recieve pay raises. employees' always did there job trying to get a great eval. now that there just a packet that no one cares about the work ethic has gone down.
57. comment by katie m. (#3560) — september 14,2007 @ 10:43am
rating: 11 thumbs up
"some tusd office workers were unhappy about being send to classrooms"??
they need to remember the reason they work for the district! maybe a day in the classroom should be required on a regular basis.
as a parent of tusd students, i believe the teachers should get the 5 percent increase they want. remember that the legislature budgeted 3 to 4% for teacher salaries. where's that money tusd?
i'd like to recommend that the district take a lesson from the "failing school model." let's have all administrators/directors re-apply for their jobs--justifying why their positions should exist; why they need to be classified at a director level; how they help teachers in the classroom; and include several letters of support from teachers describing how the administrator/director has helped them in the classroom. if they can't do this, let's cut or reclassify these positions and direct more money into teacher salaries.
58. comment by laurie g. (lareg) — september 14,2007 @ 10:43am
rating: 3 thumbs up
merit pay based on test scores is patently unfair. there are so many variables that affect student performance that teachers have no control over. for example, attendance, home environment, nutrition, poverty, and wellness are just some of the important influences that affect achievement.
until we, as a community, are prepared to address these issues we must not penalize people who cannot control these influences
59. comment by ron e. (rjeinc) — september 14,2007 @ 10:45am
rating: 3 thumbs up
i just have a problem with the union mentality. each of us should be judged on our own capabilities and performance, not as a herd of belligerent, bellowing, upset, or irate men and women with such negative mentalities. what does this "us vs them" do to the kids? it's got to rub off on them, who are so impressionable. is this a contributor to gangs? why is there a shortage of teachers? why is there not a shortage of administrators? such a mess, and it's understandable that not much is learned in such an environment. teachers - go back to work. administrators - quit being the only ones well paid in the school system. parents - help your kids and help their teachers. otherwise, we will continue this rapid decline toward a nation of uneducated consumers who can't add, subtract, pay their bills, get suckered into a mortgage no one can afford, etc.
one final comment: words that are misspelled can have a different meaning than the one you meant to convey. there is a lot of misspelled words in these comments. i hope that they don't come from the many teachers commenting today.
60. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 10:46am
rating: 1 thumb down
#51 doesn't know crap about the schools...
stupid enough to listen to tusd admins, took my kid in...being shoved in the auditorium with all the rest too lazy to figure out tusd lies is decidedly not the way my kid usually spends his school day...
61. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 10:46am
rating: 5 thumbs down
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there was a study out, actually it was a poll of news media people and teachers and the overwhelming majority labeled themselves as liberal.
that aside, unions are by and large socialist organizations. they want everyone paid the same, there are no standards for performance, you are basically a cog in the wheel. of course the unions want more money for their members because that results in more dues to the union.
then look at who unions support politically (to the tune of approx. 1 billion a year), the most liberal, socialist politicians that are running. hell, look at where these pols announce that they are running, it's usually at a union event.
so i don't need a poll or study to show me that teachers are socialists. i can look at their organizations and what they expect for what they do and that sings the sweet song of socialism very loudly.
62. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 10:49am
rating: 4 thumbs up
#57 i'd be unhappy if i were sent to a room full of hundreds of students. obviously no teaching was going to take place- you can bet the asshats who claimed learning would take place today aren't the ones practicing crowd control in the 'classroom'...
63. comment by jerry f. (plato) — september 14,2007 @ 10:51am
rating: 0 thumbs up
well, its good way to teach kids how to get what you want. throw a tantrum!
i bet you these teachers are going to get an earfull from parents when the teachers get back.
this is pathetic on so many levels.
64. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 10:52am
rating: 6 thumbs down
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#58, i love that argument. that teachers cannot be evaluated because there are too many variables. i wish i could use that at my job.
the fact is that teachers have always been paid poorly, how do you explain that pre-1960 kids were getting an education and learning?
the fact is that being a teacher today is the same as being a daycare worker and for that they are extremely overpaid.
go into the real world if you want real money. if you claim to only care about the kids, then do the job for what it pays. i don't ever remember mother theresa striking for a pay raise.
stop your ****ing whining and go back to work.
65. comment by thomas h. (#758) — september 14,2007 @ 10:52am
rating: 4 thumbs up
what does the mayor have to say about all of this? i believe that the leadership of this city sucks and we are all feeling the repercussions of it. rio nuevo? school system? crime? sidewalks? traffic? drugs? illegals? cps? etc........ this is the laziest hot damn city i have ever lived in. i will run for mayor is this keeps up!!
66. comment by mark k. (luteo) — september 14,2007 @ 10:52am
rating: 1 thumb up
somebody call the whambulance!
67. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 10:53am
rating: 5 thumbs up
#61 interesting that you look to 'organizations' to find a group of individuals' stances...
my sons have been schooled by public school teachers from day one and the teachers have been pretty much a cross section of america. mostly good, some excellent, a few very bad (my kids don't stay in their classrooms).
unions are obviously an imperfect answer, but letting the man run things unfettered is too...
68. comment by jim c. (#1651) — september 14,2007 @ 10:54am
rating: 8 thumbs up
listen teachers: don't quit fighting until you get at least 5 percent. your wages suck for all of the training you have to go through.
society owes you, practically the lowest paid of all the professions, a huge debt of gratitude. it's time they match that with some bucks thrown your way especially in az.
why you stay in the field is beyond me. there are many easier, more lucrative ways to make a living that take less training. if you end up getting fired, take comfort in the fact that you can easily make just as much being an assistant manager at a fast food restaurant or by cutting hair.
we should be grateful that you do what you do. you don't get the respect you deserve and you never will. everybody thinks they're an expert in what you do because, after all, everyone knows how to do math, read etc. and everybody has taught someone one-on-one before. deep down everyone thinks they could do your job and do it at least better than some lousy teacher they had years ago - and you too.
ah, but when you do what you do there's at least 20 children of varying ability. everybody's always trying to do better what was done in the past. complacency isn't allowed. for example, in hs i read "romeo and juliet" as a freshman in 1980. that was standard. a few years ago a teacher had my son reading it in 7th grade. there you go. american education is pushing the envelope. we should never stop, of course, but we shouldn't wring our hands over it either. we've got the idea that everyone should succeed and we should keep that idea too and always hope that everyone can succeed. maybe we should separate the learning disabled and non-english speakers from the rest of the kids and only measure those with at least a 110 iq. you'd see a phenomenal increase in the test scores and a lot of these idiots (i mean neocons) would shut up. of course they'd shut up! they're not big on details!
anyway, all the best. good luck. go get yours.
69. comment by ninfa b. (cilnmjdb) — september 14,2007 @ 10:56am
rating: 8 thumbs up
teachers are not throwing a tantrum. they are raising your kids. they wouldn't pay me enough money to be a teacher. they are the least respected, by adults and students. the students that disrespect the teachers are children of adults that have no value on education. try visiting the schools without letting your child know you are going to get a look at how much the teachers have to put up with.
70. comment by grey s. (bullpen) — september 14,2007 @ 10:59am
rating: 8 thumbs up
#53 sounds like you might be in favor of tracking? wasn't that the model that keyed in on students individually and put them into different paths that coincided with their strengths? lets face it, not all students are equipped to be m.d.s, engineers, or scientists. some may be better suited for other neccesary 'blue collar' jobs.
they had that system in california before it became politically incorrect to 'label' kids based on their abilities and test scores. oh and by the way, at that time california had a public eduction system that was a model for others.
in my opinion, no child left behind is a nudge back in the direction of of actually teaching the three r's and testing the students to see if they learned anything. i'm sure it has been a real strain on education, but only so because it is more in line with the way traditional education used to be in america and shows how far we went away from traditional methods.
i agree totally with you that some kids certainly belong in different settings, classes and schools. do that, and you'll be accused of being prejudiced in some way because someone will always feel slighted. next, the tax-payer will be forced to spend more money to mix all the children up so they can all suffer, get abused, join gangs, do drugs, have sex at very young ages, breed more dummies....wait!- thats where this whole mess came from........
really, i do believe no child left behind is a good model, it may be the administration of it that is a problem, and the fact that we are expecting teachers to try to teach class with pupils present who don't even speak enlish how bizarre, how bizarre!!!
71. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 11:00am
rating: 15 thumbs up
#64 well, the daycare remark hits home, but that's at least as much the parents' fault as the teachers. if you are not involved in your kids' education and just drop him off and expect results, well you ain't going to get them...
many of the kids today are nothing more than wild animals- if your parents don't teach you appropriate behaviour, then how is the teacher going to teach him math?
72. comment by alan r. (#6495) — september 14,2007 @ 11:04am
rating: 10 thumbs up
i support the teachers on this one. the contract and rise offer made by the board was disgusting.
place the blame where it belongs...the tusd board and administrators...take your choice corrupt or inept.
73. comment by charles d. (azfan1983) — september 14,2007 @ 11:08am
rating: 4 thumbs up
offering teachers 1% - 1.5% is a joke. however, where the problem really lies is the system.
all employee's regardless of there profession should be given yearly evaluations by competent supervisors or managers. that is where merit pay comes in to play. in that way all our teachers would hopefully be top notch. giving everyone a raise at the same time despite their performance is great for the underachievers but not so good for the most valued teachers. the system needs to change.
74. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 11:09am
rating: 1 thumb up
#64 "the fact is that being a teacher today is the same as being a daycare worker and for that they are extremely overpaid."
i love that thought, think about this;
30 kids a day for 6 hours a day at, let's say, $2 an hour per kid. that equals $360 a day multipled by 213 days a year, equals a little above $76,000 a year for "babysitting" our kids.
and you think they're overpaid?!?!!!
75. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 11:12am
rating: 2 thumbs up
re 74. and i'm probably low-balling those figures any way. what does all day daycare cost for one child? multiply that by 30. do the math.
76. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 11:13am
rating: 2 thumbs up
#63 this parent doesn't blame the teachers, but the tusd administration should be ashamed of itself for the paltry pay raise they attempted to foist onto the teachers...
then there's the blatant lie- your children will be learning today, we have your classrooms- especially the high schools covered. so shame on me for expecting anything other than a flat out lie from these guys...
77. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 11:18am
rating: 2 thumbs up
#51 if your kid doesn't know how to balance his own checkbook then you might want to examine yourself before pointing your fingers at your child's teachers...
but then, chances are you haven't reproduced..which is likely a good thing.
78. comment by merle b. (merlebreiland) — september 14,2007 @ 11:21am
rating: 1 thumb up
many teachers are great and should be paid a log more. unfortunately, the union won't allow it. a union is like a crutch. it is great if you can't do it on your own but really slows you down having to drag it with you everywhere.
when my kids were growing up i took them out of public schools due to the social indoctrination that was forced on them as well as the poor quality of the teaching. instead i sent them to private schools from kindergarten through college and they all are successful.
it wasn't always this way. there was a time prior to about 1960 when public education was on a par with private schools. since unionizing the public school system has been in a steady decline.
79. comment by boy u. (#2612) — september 14,2007 @ 11:21am
rating: 2 thumbs up
hey 65, dont forget the mayor has a say in the rodeo. only because he got hurt one year.
80. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 11:25am
rating: 3 thumbs up
sure blame the unions, never the parents...
81. comment by thomas w. (sugardaddy) — september 14,2007 @ 11:25am
rating: 4 thumbs down
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i have the solution if you dont like the raise quit and get a job somewhere else.
82. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 11:28am
rating: 9 thumbs up
thomas, good solution. that'll help our kids. they should all quit and leave the parents to home-school their own kids since they can do it better. how would you like to be judged as a parent based on how your kid does on standardized tests? think you're up to the task?
83. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 11:31am
rating: 2 thumbs down
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daycare employees are minimum wage at best. if we are going to start with this socialist paradigm bit, where we divide product cost vs. product profit, then everyone, including people that sling fries out the windows at mcd's is underpaid.
fortunately for those of us in the real world, that foolish strawman argument made in #74 doesn't translate into real life.
teachers are a joke. i wouldn't put my kids in public schools at gun point. they don't teach the subjects they should, they subjects they shouldn't and they don't do a good job at either.
so come up with some sort of viable evaluation system and get rid of the deadwood. until that gets done, no raises for not getting the job done.
84. comment by thomas w. (sugardaddy) — september 14,2007 @ 11:35am
rating: 2 thumbs down
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#82 i did'nt choose teaching as a career they did. and i'm sure there are alot more graduating every year its not like they can't be replaced.
85. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 11:35am
rating: 0 thumbs up
teachers get a yearly evaluation from administration, just like most people. what makes you so sure teachers are a joke, mike a? opinion, or do you have facts to back up your assertation? and what makes your job real world and teaching "fantasy world"?
86. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 11:36am
rating: 2 thumbs down
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you know what blacksox you might want to do some research before you post. that lame straw man in #74 was bad enough, but now you want to try to attack home schoolers?
clearly you know not what you write as home schoolers destroy public school kids on the same tests. they start college earlier, take less prep classes and are involved in more activities.
i would just stay on the porch with regard to that subject before you make a total ass out of yourself.
87. comment by robert j. (56vett) — september 14,2007 @ 11:37am
rating: 8 thumbs up
these teachers are professionals with hard earned degrees. they are treated like bond servants in a top heavy management who don't hesitate to give raises to themselves. as a volunteer at the schools, i see teachers receiving $32,000 a year or a bit more as a profession? they wear tattered clothing while the students wear new fashions and drive newer cars supplied by the same parents who complain about their saleries. put the money into the schools, and the people who are in the trenches teaching your kids. good salaries attract talent, otherwise, be a police officer for $42000 a year to start and moves up fast(with benefits) that is where the talent is going and on to other types of careers. teaching is a poor return for a degree.
88. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 11:37am
rating: 2 thumbs up
#85 are you joking?
it's in the news every day. poor test scores, not passing aims, high drop out rate, inability to read etc.
you just want to ignore the 5 ton elephant in the room?
89. comment by ana v. (anavinas) — september 14,2007 @ 11:38am
rating: 7 thumbs up
it is pretty sad that every year teachers are being stepped on when it comes to their salary and their working conditions. classrooms are overcrowed. there are not enough materials, furniture, technology, parent assistance but yet they are expected to perform and ensure students meet the required learning for the year. teachers are constantly taken for granted. it is unfortunate our students have to suffer at this point but teachers are only asking for what is fair. it is a disgrace that in a country who has so much doesn't put a higher value on its youth's education. remember, as with everything else, you get what you pay for...
90. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 11:39am
rating: 4 thumbs up
if home-schooling is so easy, then why doesn't everybody do it? you've got all the asnswers, tell me that one.
anyhow, you compared teachers to daycare workers in the first place as far as job descriptions go. i just added the numbers for you.
91. comment by holly c. (holly) — september 14,2007 @ 11:41am
rating: 4 thumbs up
"public education is the cornerstone of our democracy and it is becoming less and less available to the public."
not so. at least not as you probably mean that, and not as it now is practiced. jefferson's idea of education for all children did not mean what we've got today!
maryanne, you have believed a lie about "no child left behind;" it is not to abolish the education of the public, which is to be differentiated from "public education" which means "government controlled."
no right-minded citizen should want its children's educations managed and directed by federal government. the brilliant founders of our country were not educated in "the public school system" -- they were educated in their homes, local commmunity one-room school-houses, and then in universities they paid for, not with grants and taxes, and were taught by professors who were valued and paid based on their merits, not by collective bargaining coercion.
whatever, the present system of public education is not successful. attempts at improvement by privatization, vouchers, charters, merit-pay based system, etc., are attempts with good and very valid reason.
your grocer, your gas-station owner, your local shopping mall employees, and everyone you pay for goods and services from all deserve equal treatment and pay??? i don't think so. you go where you get what you think you ought to pay for the quality you want in the goods and services you buy, and you willingly pay. otherwise, you'd rather live in singapore or some other socialist society.
if education were treated like that, where people realized they get what they pay for and aren't forced to just pay for what they get regardless of quality, it would shape up in a hurry. and that means top-down. administrators won't get their $60g's (someone here proposed that) if no one wants to send their kids to that their school. why do you think private hospitals are more successful than public ones? they give better service and can charge for it, and people willingly pay their co-pay to have it. they also do far more for the communities they exist in. but, i digress.
the idea of "free public education" (paid for by taxpayers, keeping in mind the large numbers of people that don't have to pay taxes), removed parental control, and contributed to turning schools into glorified day-care centers, where such exist as such, by causing the present apathetic state communities are in over this subject with hands thrown in the air and another meager, fruitless little demonstration that has done nothing but caused hours of little fingers of ours bashing away our little viewpoints on our keyboards.
i'm not saying all schools, all teachers, or all anything, but just speaking on principle, and i am saying categorically this is not what jefferson likely had in mind when he envisaged education of all america's children!
92. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 11:41am
rating: 6 thumbs up
#88, how much culpability do the students have when it comes to test scores. if you knew much about it, then you would understand that homelife, learning abilities, and language barriers have much more to do with a student's test scores than who's teaching them.
93. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 11:43am
rating: 5 thumbs up
#83 my kid got a decent education in public schools- enough to garner several academic scholarships to good universities. and fancy that, i didn't have to send him at gunpoint...he did, however, have to wade through a bunch of his peers whose parents think daycare and school are synonomous...maybe their parents did drop them off at gunpoint. come to think of it, said parents proly taught their kid more about guns than they did appropriate behaviour...
94. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 11:43am
rating: 0 thumbs up
your numbers were totally bogus and contrived. one could make that same argument for every job and come up with a similar result.
my job isn't a "fantasy" because i am actually required to perform or risk getting fired. something that is clearly not a requirement for public school teachers.
with regard to home-schooling, it requires certain sacrifices that some people are not willing to make. there are too many to list, but it could be having to live on one income, adjusting work schedules, working jobs you don't want to work or (insert whatever sacrifice people don't want to make when they can just dump their kids off to free public schools).
95. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 11:45am
rating: 7 thumbs down
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because knowing about guns is the opposite of good behavior?
yea keep up the liberal spin here, next thing you know we will have monitors in our homes to make sure we follow the government plan.
hiel hitler
96. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 11:46am
rating: 12 thumbs up
#88 both my thoroughly public school students passes the aims test their sophomore years...
school is just like everything else in life- you get out what you put in. if a parent does not put out an effort with regards to their kids, then they are going to get exactly what they put in...
97. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 11:47am
rating: 6 thumbs up
#96 i agree with point, both you and blacksox have made it.
problem is that you cannot remove those with a daycare mentality and it ruins the learning experience for kids like yours.
98. comment by jim c. (#1651) — september 14,2007 @ 11:47am
rating: 4 thumbs up
mike 86 - you need to cite your stats. the studies i've seen show that while most homeschoolers do okay in things like spelling and reading, they are far below average in other subjects science and math. they also have problems working with teams and with socialization. of course it depends on the parent and the homeschooling support group. but then, what you're doing with a support group is just another form of school.
ah, as i think a great woman once said, "it takes a village to raise a child."
99. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 11:48am
rating: 2 thumbs up
#94. so make an argument for other jobs. teachers, especially probationary teachers, can be fired for not performing their required tasks, just the same as you. but you need to distinguish what the tasks are. it's not to have students perform well, too much of that rides on the individual student. no, their job is to provide instruction in various subjects. how much should the grade reflect the teacher versus the student taking the test?
100. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 11:48am
rating: 3 thumbs down
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so as i stated earlier, until a valid evaluation system is in place for teachers and a top to bottom revamp of the entire system is put into effect, i will not sanction throwing one more dime into this broken system.
101. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 11:49am
rating: 1 thumb down
#95 if the shoe fits wear it...because we all know good cons thinks good marksmanship should trump math and history any day...
and i could throw religion in there too..much more important to know the bible than it is biology.
102. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 11:50am
rating: 0 thumbs up
jim c., you have not even seen a study, you are reciting the old stereotypes of homeschoolers, you need to dust your data off a bit, this isn't 1960 anymore.
103. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 11:50am
rating: 0 thumbs up
should a college student get their money back if they don't earn a degree? or should the professor be fired? doesn't work that way.
104. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 11:53am
rating: 4 thumbs up
#94 so we should all homeschool our kids?
and those of us who are adult enough to admit we are not educated enough ourselves to teach calc to our kids???
meh, i'm wishing a lot more folk would homeschool their brats, that way they'd quit cluttering up the public schools.
105. comment by patricia r. (lucianvista) — september 14,2007 @ 11:55am
rating: 1 thumb up
40% of the teachers are "sick", the remaining 60% came to school for the safety of the students. it is amazing how many of them are retired or previous military. i agree teachers need to make more. unfortunately, most of the teachers, that i am familar with, that didn't show up are not the best of the best, but the ones that spend their days complaining about petty things instead of putting the kids first and making the schools function effectively.
106. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 11:57am
rating: 2 thumbs down
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well i can see that you all are turning to insults and such, which basically means you have run out (if you ever had any) of valid arguments.
go ahead and keep voting to raise bonds and such to keep these under/non-performing schools "in the money" while they don't get the job done.
i have 3 kids in college, 1 started @ 13, none of them went to public schools.
i'll let all you brainiacs figure it out, keep spouting your incorrect stereotypes and talking like a bunch of dumbasses. in the meantime, i'll keep doing what i have been doing, producing productive, intelligent kids.
107. comment by thomas w. (sugardaddy) — september 14,2007 @ 11:57am
rating: 1 thumb up
#103 no they should'nt get their money back. but by the time your a college student you should be an adult were talking about children.
108. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 12:03pm
rating: 2 thumbs up
#106 bully for you...but that doesn't make a damn point regarding teachers and public schools, since your kids did not go to one...
it is possible to get a decent education in a public school. despite all the attempts by conservatives to torpedo them, despite all the lazy butt parents that dump their kids on them, despite all the extra money and effort that public schools must spend on handicapped children (where do you suppose vouchers are going to have them end up at?).
this sickout ain't on the teachers...just look how fast that offer was upped this morning- so why wasn't it done sooner?
109. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 12:06pm
rating: 3 thumbs up
i pay taxes, so whether my kids are in the schools or not, i am still compelled to pay for them.
blind squirrels find nuts too, that doesn't mean anything that some kids get educated in the system.
off to do other things...carry on.
110. comment by grey s. (bullpen) — september 14,2007 @ 12:08pm
rating: 1 thumb up
#98 no, you've got it wrong, she said, "it takes an idiot to raze a villiage".
111. comment by thomas h. (#758) — september 14,2007 @ 12:09pm
rating: 3 thumbs up
mr. walkup still hasnt responded to this. i bet he's playing golf. where is the leadership?
112. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 12:09pm
rating: 3 thumbs up
but of course, those kids that do get an education did so all on their own, no help from teachers or even some part of the system that does work...
ain't it weird its a ok for mikey to throw insults at any and all, but then when some are thrown back at him, he's got 'other things to do'....
113. comment by gloria h. (sportsmom) — september 14,2007 @ 12:10pm
rating: 2 thumbs up
parents fustration should be directed to the tusd administration not the teachers themselves.
teachers constantly pull dollars from their own pockets or if you have an active ptsa, they may give each teacher money for school supplies. how many people spend their own money for office supplies for your job? i fully support the "flu".
114. comment by jim c. (#1651) — september 14,2007 @ 12:11pm
rating: 2 thumbs down
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102 - empiric and anecdotal evidence about homeschoolers is also valid. all homeschoolers aren't mandated to be tested. it's a sample that's self-selected.
if there was a study that mandated everyone who called themself a homeschooler to be tested against your regular working-class district (like tusd) minus the special ed and esl students you'd see a much different result than some thing, say from bob jones university. that's why you've got to go with the empiric evidence no matter how much there's an anecdote or two out there of some homeschooler who succeeded.
truth is, one can make stats that say anything.
so i say again, mike. show me a study about homeschooling where the deck isn't stacked one way or another.
115. comment by rick l. (dixlee) — september 14,2007 @ 12:22pm
rating: 11 thumbs up
i'm a teacher. i teach us history, advanced placement us history, and coordinate the teen court program at my high school. i'm writing this from home. i resisted joining tea for 14 years. then one day, my then principal threatened my livlihood should i attend a certain meeting on that day. where ever you are mark, thank you. i'm not sure why so many ridicule and degrade such an honarable profession. i can only assume you are the ones who send your kids to school to be baby sat. or are you the ones who wish to be a best friend rather than a parent? or maybe you're the racist bully who spends more time justifying why it's ok for your child to use "motherf--ker" and "f--k" as "an expression of cultural diversity and expressions of 400 years of oppression"? no? could you be the parent who allows your daughter to arrive at school partially clothed exposing more flesh than covered? still not right? are you the dad who allows his son to wear the "f--k me i'm irish" t-shirt to school? could you be the parent i talk to on the phone who begins to sob and cry and exclaim "i can't handle him anymore. he's rude to me and becomes abusive whenever i try to talk to him about school"? i've got it, your the guy who thought it was cool to buy your kid a belt buckle with removable brass knuckles and doesn't see the problem when the kid brings the brass knuckles to school!! i could go on and on. you people seem to think that public education is here to correct what you've screwed up. wrong!!
we're here to provide children who want to learn an opportunity to do so. i can just about guarantee there exists a far greater number of incompetent parents compared to imcompetent teachers. so when it comes to issues of hiring and firing, merit pay, getting rid of incompetent teachers? you take the lead!! clean up your own back yard before coming into mine and leaving your mess behind!!
116. comment by grey s. (bullpen) — september 14,2007 @ 12:23pm
rating: 3 thumbs up
holly c. should consider politics. read her posts, very well articulated, presented, and sensibly defended ideas without venom.
could probably bring a brain to the tucson city government.
117. comment by c m. (cm) — september 14,2007 @ 12:31pm
rating: 7 thumbs up
#115,
bravo...well said.
118. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 12:32pm
rating: 4 thumbs up
114. if you can make a study say anything, what possible point would there be in my posting one? so we could then banter around with foolishness like the source, the data etc?
you continue to think what you choose, being wrong isn't something that bothers you, so stick with it.
if we are talking about anecdotal and empirical data, i don't need a study to show how poorly public schools are doing, because there is no shortage of it around about the failings of that system.
ignorance is bliss and it works for you. you can simply google info about homeschooling etc and get what you want, i am sure you will find find plenty fodder for you mill.
for those that think i was insulting people, well, i was simply pointing out the flaws in certain formulas posted by some. if pointing out flaws is the same as insulting, you see why pc public schools are in the state they are in.
119. comment by ron j. (ronjon) — september 14,2007 @ 12:33pm
rating: 5 thumbs up
great post #115 rick. i appreciate your opinion, but it doesn't support a raise in pay to tolerate it. this demands comlpte house cleaning all the way the to the federal government. we are not adversaries, we share most of the same frustrations. taxpayers , inconviniently, have only one place to draw a line in the sand. if tea were effective, they would organize opposition to tusd supported by all. all that said, the public schools have been given the cancer of political correctness, and it is terminal. it is as destructive here as it is second guessing generals in the heat of combat. you must know that, you teach us history.
120. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 12:35pm
rating: 5 thumbs up
mike a. said, "i have 3 kids in college, 1 started @ 13, none of them went to public schools."
so what makes you an expert on what goes on in a public school?
#115 that is the truth, friend. and it will hurt a lot of people. but it is true.
121. comment by sandra s. (#1551) — september 14,2007 @ 12:36pm
rating: 4 thumbs up
i agree with you 100%. #115. you guys are dealing with so much and you still have to teach these kids; the ones that want to learn and the ones that just waste your time and space.
122. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 12:39pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
#106 "i'll keep doing what i have been doing, producing productive, intelligent kids"
so you'll take credit as a parent for your kids' academic success, but in the next breath you'll blame teachers for the failures of other kids? doesn't make sense.
123. comment by jamie c. (jamiejc) — september 14,2007 @ 12:40pm
rating: 5 thumbs down
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i am a student at pueblo high school and i dont think that it is right that they are doing this! if the teachers of tusd keep on doing this student including myself will not be able to get the education that we need because school will keep getting out early. if we leep having to watch movies like rush hour 2 all day long then we will wont be getting an education, and for some people that education doesn't matter to them but it does to me! i dont want to be known as the girl that acts like paris hilton.
jamiejc
124. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 12:40pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
obviously, i got delayed in going out.
a funny anecdote for some of you. when we put my 13 year old in college we got a bunch of grief from people because they didn't feel it was in the best interest of my child to put her there at a young age.
we heard all the horror stories about her being so much younger, the socialization nonsense etc. they basically tried to make us feel like we were bad parents because we weren't letting our child be a child.
basically what it is is people are just jealous that their kids are lounging around, under performing and not making the grade. so the way they manifest all of that is become "haters" of kids that do well.
this is the same stuff i read above about socialization etc of homeschoolers. it's a fiction, pure and simple and although it only exists now in the most narrow minded people, it is still out there. mainly by people who see homeschool kids doing better than their kids, getting scholarships and being involved.
it is just a hater mentality and it exists anytime you accomplish something other people haven't.
125. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 12:43pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
#124 "basically what it is is people are just jealous that their kids are lounging around, under performing and not making the grade. so the way they manifest all of that is become "haters" of kids that do well."
and "haters" of teachers charged with trying to get lounging, under performing kids to get good tests scores in order to justify getting paid.
right? mike a?
126. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 12:44pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
re insults mike, #52
the quality of education today was decidly different than what most kids get on a daily basis. know that for a fact as my kid is directly involved- so where's your basis for such a statement?
you don't have one, you're just throwing insults...
127. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 12:45pm
rating: 3 thumbs up
blacksox, i am obviously not articulating myself properly.
i have posted 2 things:
1. no more money until there is a mechanism in place to evaluate and remove useless teachers.
2. no more money until we do a total revamp of the system from top to bottom.
if you are trying to get me to say that parents play a part in education: absolutely. why do you think that the japanese, who have class sizes twice as large as ours, kick our butts in testing? it's because being a dumbass is frowned upon in that culture, something that is not the case here.
if you read #2 above. you revamp the system, you make it so the dumbasses can be removed or put in some other school. you make it easier for teachers to do their jobs. the results will be better, money is no longer wasted and it becomes win/win.
the current way of doing business has failed. stop throwing money into it and fix it.
128. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 12:47pm
rating: 3 thumbs down
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#52 what are you on about?
129. comment by jim c. (#1651) — september 14,2007 @ 12:47pm
rating: 4 thumbs up
mike it sounds to me like you accept the validity of empirical data then.
what i'd like to do is challenge the assumption that the trouble is with society and schools.
maybe the trouble is with the families and the students. maybe they are the ones responsible for individual success. maybe the job of the society is to enable success as best we can. but to always kick the school system seems disingenious when you look at all of the dysfunctional homeschoolers and their parents the next time you go to say the arizona sonora desert museum on homeschool day! give me normalicy any day!
130. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 12:48pm
rating: 2 thumbs down
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that's not an insult, that is a fact based on empirical and anecdotal information.
131. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 12:50pm
rating: 3 thumbs up
also mike, the home structure in japan is based on honor. those students are severly punished for dishonoring their families. home structures here aren't generally as good as what you have established in your home. my only argument is that if people want to put all the responsibility for student success on the teacher, then they deserve to be paid more based on the task at hand.
132. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 12:50pm
rating: 1 thumb up
#124 oh my, more anecdotes from mikey and his genius kid and how the 'system' and everyone else just hates 'em...
so come on, brag some more about your kid...tell us what fine ivy league school you sent 'em to...
133. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 12:52pm
rating: 2 thumbs down
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well i don't know about any home school days, but for years i have worked in the public, and i can tell you with certainty that public school kids have not cornered the market on normalcy.
i'm not going to argue this point anymore. i don't know what exposure you have had with home schoolers and don't really care. if you are going to try to parade publicly educated children as models of behavior then that's a whole different issue.
134. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 12:53pm
rating: 2 thumbs down
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b.w. has some issues, anger management or some other therapy might do the trick for you. lol
135. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 12:55pm
rating: 6 thumbs up
on second thought, never mind, there really isn't any sort of arguing with someone who resorts to 'no more money til we do a total revamp of the system'...just plain nuts. and the kids are just to stay on hold til that is done?
your refusal to see that the families the kids come from are part of the problem...so shifting the system over to a private one is going to solve that particular problem...how?
136. comment by jamie c. (jamiejc) — september 14,2007 @ 12:57pm
rating: 1 thumb down
i dont understand why i have three thumbs down i am speaking my mind about how i want to have my education and you guys are giving me 3 thumbs down! that is not cool!
137. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 12:57pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
lol. b.w. you can't read?
if you are trying to get me to say that parents play a part in education: absolutely. why do you think that the japanese, who have class sizes twice as large as ours, kick our butts in testing? it's because being a dumbass is frowned upon in that culture, something that is not the case here.
taken from my post #127 above. it is not the first time i have posted it here. maybe if you took your meds and got your anger under control you might have seen it.
138. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 12:57pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
oh for sure, as if your advice is something worth taking...
139. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 12:59pm
rating: 6 thumbs up
#133, you hit the nail on the head with your description of the general nature of public school kids. so again, you can't blame only teachers for poor test scores. blame crappy teachers (there are some out there), crappy students (some of those too), and crappy home lives (more than you might think).
the issue now is what are professional educators worth? can't base it on test scores because we can all now agree that there are factors invovled that are beyond teacher control. so it comes down to this; are teachers who are instructing what they're supposed to worth more than what they're getting paid? i would say yes.
140. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 12:59pm
rating: 2 thumbs down
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nah just keep doing what you're doing, it seems to work for you.
muahahaha
141. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 1:01pm
rating: 1 thumb up
there you go with the insults again, but no, mikey never does that..do as mikey says not as he does.
i'm thinking the japanese system is a bit harsh. think there is a much more middle ground that could be achieved without resorting to raising our kids like spartans...
142. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 1:03pm
rating: 2 thumbs up
isn't it weird that our colleges are pretty much acknowledged as the best on the planet and yet they are generally acknowledged as being run by liberals?
do you want a grad from an ivy league school or bob jones u? how 'bout caltech or liberty u?
143. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 1:04pm
rating: 3 thumbs up
i would agree to pay public school teacher double what they are getting now if the system itself was vetted out to ensure that teachers can teach kids who are there to learn.
get rid of the deadwood, both teachers and students. revamp the system and i am all for paying them more.
i am not for dumping more and more of my (and your) hard earned money into a system that continues to fail.
i like how germany does it. they take the academics put them in high school, they take those who don't do so well in trade school and the rest become apprentices. that way everyone is somewhere they want to be and being productive.
if at some point they want to switch their focus, i.e. apprentice to high school, they simply bump up their grades, take a test and go.
i am not saying it would work here, i am saying we need a way to separate the wheat from chaff.
144. comment by jim c. (#1651) — september 14,2007 @ 1:08pm
rating: 2 thumbs up
you have to take the culture - and the testing - into context. for example, do they mainstream and test all special ed. are the only ones tested college bound?
if there's a good idea or two from there we should borrow it. but in the meantime, let's not kick at the schools.
and while we do that let's deport all the neocons like mike - that will surely raise any gross measure of intelligence and ability of any population by several points! ;-)
145. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 1:09pm
rating: 2 thumbs up
and while we do that let's deport all the neocons like mike - that will surely raise any gross measure of intelligence and ability of any population by several points! ;-)
as long as i get to pick my destination i am ok with it. :p
146. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 1:09pm
rating: 5 thumbs up
it's done that way in some respect, mike. university high and other magnet programs in public schools have admissions policies. but with the rest, all students are thrown into the mix, good and bad. but who's job is more difficult, a teacher who has high acheivers, or the one trying to teach johnny nogood how to read? how would you fix that?
147. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 1:16pm
rating: 6 thumbs up
or the one trying to teach johnny nogood how to read? how would you fix that?
i heard that a principal here in tucson did this, i cannot vouch for its validity, but here how it went:
he kicked all the bad apples out and called the parents. told the parents that he was setting up classes after school and the kids could come but only if the parent came too. once the kid demonstrated he could behave he would be allowed back in normal class.
clearly if the parents didn't show, they didn't care, the kid stayed on the street, where he would probably end up anyway. if the parent came, you bet that kid got a lesson.
this seems far fetched for here, like i said it was just a story i heard. but making the parents accountable in a similar way would be a good start.
148. comment by jamie c. (jamiejc) — september 14,2007 @ 1:20pm
rating: 3 thumbs down
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this is the last comment i am going to post because obviously nobody is respecting what i have to say!
who taught you how to read?
teachers
who taught you how to write your name?
teachers
who taught your kids to do the same?
teachers
evertything in this world is the cause of teachers. teacher's are just as important as a firefighter and a policeman because teachers are the one that taught them how to do what they are doing! and yeah i agree that they should get more pay but i think that they should come to school and teach your kids or your kids, kids how to learn just like how they taugh you.
thnk you to the people that gave me a thumbs down!
jamiejc
149. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 1:22pm
rating: 3 thumbs down
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_who taught you how to read?
teachers
who taught you how to write your name?
teachers
who taught your kids to do the same?
teachers_
and the kids that can't read or write?
150. comment by marlene f. (#5114) — september 14,2007 @ 1:25pm
rating: 2 thumbs up
according to the article 1440 teachers called in sick - obviously not being sick. isn't that called a lie? is this what is being tought in our schools? to lie is considered ok if you want something hard enough?
even if the reason for it seems to be ajust, these decent and hopefully intelligent people of this profession should find a better way to express their rights.
151. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 1:29pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
firefighters and police are not allowed to sick out or strike.
152. comment by phil d. (phild) — september 14,2007 @ 1:31pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
jamie c. - it's clearly the teachers who are sitting at home "sick" and refusing to teach you who are giving your (and every other) comment opposed to their unscrupulous laziness all those thumbs down. head for the public library and start reading books on every subject.....in only a few weeks you'll have a better education than most who have attended tusd schools for twelve years. after nearly totla disgust with most tusd teachers (exceptions: randy moon at alice vail, and many wonderful music teachers)
153. comment by mike d. (inkslinger) — september 14,2007 @ 1:33pm
rating: 5 thumbs up
please, everyone spare us the hystrionics of "what kind of example is this setting for our children?"
"for the love of god, what about the children?"
the majority of today's kids are hoople-headed t.v. and video game junkies with no sense of civic pride or duty, and no respect for their elders...i'm glad the teachers stood up for themselves and took a day off from having to babysit the little monsters.
154. comment by dabil g. (red star) — september 14,2007 @ 1:33pm
rating: 4 thumbs up
so what are teachers, anyway? babysitters? teachers?
let's take a look at the shill citizen opinion editor's, billie stanton, deep thoughts:
"teachers have our support not because they’re cute or special. they have our support because they teach our kids, and the students need them.
in deserting their students, they also desert entire families, most of which are headed by people who need to go to work while their kids are in school.
so must those parents call in sick too? and what is the ripple effect on tucson business?"
over at: http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/blogs/index.php?blog=22
teachers or babysitters? can billie stanton make up her mind?
155. comment by phil d. (phild) — september 14,2007 @ 1:34pm
rating: 3 thumbs up
#152. unfinished... (total disgust...) i encouraged my son to drop out and enroll at pima college at age 15. best decision i could have made.
156. comment by jamie c. (jamiejc) — september 14,2007 @ 1:35pm
rating: 1 thumb down
yeah the fire fighters and police are not aloud to sick out or go on strike because there is no reason for them to do that! they get paid pretty well and they like saving peoples lives! dang mike a. you really like to talk crap to people dont you?
157. comment by h r. (hekare) — september 14,2007 @ 1:35pm
rating: 4 thumbs up
there have been many calls for "a better way" to get tusd's attention on these discussion boards today, but i haven't seen any suggestions. yes, the system is broken and desperately needs to be fixed. so, as one of the least respected people on campus, and in society in general, how would you go about changing things?
158. comment by joe n. (joseph n) — september 14,2007 @ 1:36pm
rating: 2 thumbs up
what! holding the taxpayers and administration hostage with a lie....and the ones that currently at work are picking up your slack.
sorry 'sick outs' but this just does not fit my definition of a professional.
in most business you would be reprimanded or, even worse, fired.
159. comment by blacksox w. (blacksox) — september 14,2007 @ 1:37pm
rating: 2 thumbs up
that's good #147. now you have to find certified teachers willing to teach those classes. do you pay them overtime? i think #155 is on the right track too. take your kids out if they're doing poorly. put them in a situation to succeed. obviously public school isn't for everybody.
160. comment by jamie c. (jamiejc) — september 14,2007 @ 1:40pm
rating: 2 thumbs down
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yeah music is cool but you know what learning only music will not get you anywhere in life!! its the education
math
science
history
english
literature
you can use music for fun but not for everyday life.. all people in bands had to go to school now didn't they??
161. comment by jamie c. (jamiejc) — september 14,2007 @ 1:44pm
rating: 7 thumbs down
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oh yeah and im not going to go to a library where there isn't anybody to teach me how to do the work that is what teachers are for!!
162. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 1:45pm
rating: 4 thumbs up
police & firefighters cannot "sick out" because they would get canned. they only make about 35-40k to start, not exactly stellar wages for being in the gun sight daily.
#159. we don't necessarily have to do the classes i spoke of after school, they could be done during school, separate teachers, paid straight time etc.
we are agreeing more than not. i am simply offering up a solution that would free teachers from their babysitting duties and allow them to actually teach and produce good students.
regardless, the old system doesn't work and something needs to be done.
163. comment by sonya h. (dinestar) — september 14,2007 @ 2:11pm
rating: 2 thumbs up
what ever happened to being there for the kids?? obviously money is more important than teaching our children.
i am a parent of 2 children in doolen mid and cragin elem, both tusd schools.
164. comment by maryanne p. (mpomeroy) — september 14,2007 @ 2:14pm
rating: 1 thumb down
"public education is the cornerstone of our democracy."
right now, especially in arizona which has no state minimum salary, wealthier communities, districts can afford to pay their teachers more and thusly attract more talented staff. they are also able to afford more programs for their students. that does not provide equal access to a good education. this inequality seems unconstitutional to me.
as thomas jefferson said. "the measure of our success (as a democracy) is how much we provide to those who have too little not how much we enrich those who already have plenty." this is not the exact quote but is the gist of it.
all people should have equal access to a good education, not just the wealthy. look what has happened to our state universities. who can afford to attend? how can teachers among others afford to send their.
again, as far as nclb goes, they are only interested a very limited outcome for students. people are more than test scores. in fact, you will see that research shows that test scores have very little to do with success in life or what kind of person you are.
elitism does not work in a democracy, but that seems to be the way we are heading.
many very successful people di not so well in school...einstein being one.
if nclb was in place when gwbush was in school he would never have made it. except that his wealthy parents whould have seem him through. but don't let me get started on that.
we really need to be worried about the state of our democracy and education is the cornerstone.
thank you all you teachers.
thank for your courage.
district administrators need to join your ranks.
165. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 2:29pm
rating: 2 thumbs down
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hey, that's right, slam the teachers when the administration is the one withholding their pay, then whoops, what's this, now they've doubled their offer? maybe the admin could've done that before the teachers walked out? but no, they lie to ya, tell you to bring your kid in, then when they cannot safely provide enough adults for mere supervision, let alone education, they tell ya to come pick 'em up?
sure and those are the folks i want to stick up for...
166. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 2:32pm
rating: 3 thumbs up
first off this isn't a democracy, it's a republic...huge difference. so much in fact that our founders wrote prolifically about why this country could not be a democracy.
second that quote that you attribute to jefferson sounds very much like this quote by marx "from each according to their ability; to each according to their need". although i am not saying that jefferson did not say something to that effect, i would like to see the actual quote.
third, unlike einstein, most kids that are not doing well in tusd end up on the cutting room floor with a one way ticket to loserville. for every einstein out there, there are 10's of thousands of idiots.
167. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 2:42pm
rating: 5 thumbs up
#152 right on randy moon...who just happens to be a teacher at vail who is one of the schools with a high um, absentee teacher rate today...
as for your other comments, good and bad everywhere and that includes pima high school...
168. comment by boy u. (#2612) — september 14,2007 @ 2:50pm
rating: 2 thumbs up
with the teachers calling in it's no wonder they need to pay back tusd for underchargeing health insurence. hahahahahaha.... maybe the kids should strike when they feel they are not getting the grade they think they deserve.
169. comment by tony t. (tonyt) — september 14,2007 @ 3:12pm
rating: 2 thumbs up
i am disgusted to see teachers feel it is appropriate to step on our children as their platform for negotiating and complaining about their work issues. by abandoning their supposed "commitment" to educating the exact people that they are there to support and rather openly soliciting our kids in their classrooms to "not come to school to support their teachers" or "be marked as in attendance" but asked to "stand outside the school alongside the teachers" is hitting an all-time low. teachers need to takes courses during their abundance of non-worktime (summer breaks, winter breaks, etc) about how to survive in the "real world". any employee conducting themselves like this in a true business environment would be suspended and/or terminated. in a bad economy, with headline news daily about the large mortgage lenders shutting down and overall bankrupcies on the rise, those of us still working should be thankful that we are offered even a small raise much less still have a paycheck. after watching several teachers conduct themselves so poorly over the past week, i can no longer honesty provide any type of support for these unprofessional teachers and their "cause". we all have choices and i suggest those of you so disgruntled by the perceived injustice done unto you should rethink your careers prior to planning your automatic two-week holiday breaks, long summers and short work days. at least you should have known what you were stepping into prior to selecting this original career.
170. comment by sara r. (jsriegert) — september 14,2007 @ 3:17pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
this is for $76 b w. (wilde)
it looks as if tusd has lied to the parents too. they said they had things under control, then ended up sending kids home. now you can sympathize with what teachers are going through with the district. they have misinformed many!
they even had teachers sign contracts in may with no salary on them. they claimed that if you did not sign, you would not be guaranteed a job for the 07-08 school year. when asked about what the pay would be, they said it would be worked out in the summer.
lies, lies, lies...even to the parents. but some parent still refuse to blame tusd. instead, they would rather blame teachers when they don't even know what's going on. they know that they need to come up with alternative daycare, and enrages them. well, it should, but they should not be mad at the teachers.
171. comment by sara r. (jsriegert) — september 14,2007 @ 3:25pm
rating: 3 thumbs up
this is for # 168. comment by boy u.
you said:
"with the teachers calling in it's no wonder they need to pay back tusd for underchargeing health insurence. hahahahahaha.... maybe the kids should strike when they feel they are not getting the grade they think they deserve."
i say, thanks for reminding us about the insurance mess up on tusd's part. it seems as if tusd can't get anything right! it's just another example. good job in reminding us that teachers have been messed over in a few ways.
you've illustrated my point so well.
also, if failing students go on strike, they are going on strike against their parents and it doesn't bother teachers. here's why. it's the non-supportive parents that cause bad grades in the first place. so, it would hold parents accountable for partnering in their child's educations for once. but those good parents who are behind the teachers, there kids probably aren't going to need to strike, because they are helping their child with homework etc., thus earn good grades.
so your idea for kids to strike when their grades are bad, doesn't bother teachers a bit. thanks for your idea!
172. comment by maryanne p. (mpomeroy) — september 14,2007 @ 3:26pm
rating: 4 thumbs up
mike, "real deal"
you are right it is not a quote from jefferson, but from fdr. my bad.
you reveal your predisposition and vehemence by citing marx, and lose credibility.
173. comment by sara r. (jsriegert) — september 14,2007 @ 3:38pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
to: #151. comment by mike a. (the real deal)
you said that, "firefighters and police are not allowed to sick out or strike."
well, they have no reason to. they get a good rate of pay for only having a ged or hs diploma.
teachers however need to have a 4 year college degree (bachelors) and to continue their education. so, apples cannot be compared to oranges. they don't even make enough to pay back their college loans.
and to the guy alias (prisoner) who says, "fire all of the teachers who are on strike" or something to that affect.
let's see what next week brings if tusd actually chooses to do this. were you cognizant as to what happened today? good luck with that!
174. comment by grey s. (bullpen) — september 14,2007 @ 3:43pm
rating: 2 thumbs up
#172 how similar that quote is to marx's, and the doctrine of what has become of the democratic party.
175. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 3:46pm
rating: 3 thumbs up
#172 i simply pointed out that the comment that you said was attributed to jefferson more closely resembled the comment by marx.
clearly you did not read my post in its entirety as i said, it is very possible that jefferson did in fact say that, all i wanted was to see the actual quote.
as for credibility, no one here has any as this is an anonymous forum where anyone can say anything without repercussion. if i were concerned about my "credibility" i wouldn't be posting here.
176. comment by grey s. (bullpen) — september 14,2007 @ 3:49pm
rating: 3 thumbs up
#164 the exception doesn't prove the rule as you referenced einstien. genectics often play a huge role in intelligence. i believe the cream always has a way of rising, somehow and someway. so throw away all the feel good money that you want,nature will win out in the end - no matter how much you want to fight it.
177. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 3:51pm
rating: 2 thumbs up
p.s. just for your own edification:
the fdr quote is almost identical to the marx quote. as a matter of fact many historians believe that fdr was a fan of marx. you don't have to do much research to see that the programs implemented by fdr during his reign closely mirrored the planks of the communist manifesto.
we also have a current politician who has taken from the marx speak, hillary clinton who has said:
"many of you are well enough off that ... the tax cuts may have helped you," clinton said, according to the associated press. "we're saying that for america to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you.
"we're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."
this is a neo-derivative of the marx/fdr position of taking from the productive to give to the unproductive.
178. comment by gloria h. (sportsmom) — september 14,2007 @ 3:56pm
rating: 2 thumbs up
randy moon is a great math teacher. he was tough and fair. he got the children prepared for hs. my son was not surprised when mr moon decided to retire this year. parents were moving their children from his math class (self-contained gate)to normal math class because their child did not get an a. he expected the kids to learn not memorize. parents placed the blame on his teaching ability not the fact the kids who did not follow his instructions. i support the friday walk off. teachers deserve a pay raise!
179. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 4:00pm
rating: 2 thumbs up
fdr:
the test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much it is whether we provide enough for those who have little.
karl marx:
"from each according to their ability; to each according to their need"
hillary clinton:
"we're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."
180. comment by michael g. (singletchr) — september 14,2007 @ 4:00pm
rating: 4 thumbs up
as a former u s soldier, tucson police officer and current tusd middle school teacher i have read these posts with increasing anger and a perverse sense of pride
anger because these people who say the military is to big , we need to cut down or even get rid of it don’t realize what that would do to us. do they think that the portion of the world that wishes us harm would say ok the us is no longer a powerful nation we need to leave them alone? maybe terrorists would say they learned their lesson we can go someplace else and leave them in peace? or maybe they think that mexico and canada would say “oh the us dropped its military we need to step up and protect them”?….putting that notion aside where do you think these 100,000’s of ex-military would go ? just drop off the face of the earth??? no, about ½ of them would join the rest of us in the workforce and the other ½ would make the unemployment figures of today look like roses.
anger because those that lambaste police officers for police brutality are probability among the most glad when a police officer shows up when they are involved in an emergency. they say get rid of the cops….lets look at that picture, shall we? no more cops. i guess the criminals would say wait a minute we have to be on our best behavior because there are no more police to protect the innocent people from us. we no longer will rob, rape, murder, sell drugs or any of the other things that we used to do because america was smart enough to give up its military and police
perverse sense of pride because it is the very people they ridicule and look down upon that give them the very right to say and write the very things they are saying and writing. without the military and police we would not have the right to say and do the things that we are doing without fear of reprisal. millions of soldiers ( i am including all military in this statement) , both men and women, have served in the military to give them this right.
many of the posts have said they have lost all respect for teachers because they called in sick. they ask what kind of example are we setting for the kids . my viewpoint would be what kind of example would we set for them if we did not stand up for what we believed to be right. what kind of example would we set if we did not stand up against a perceived injustice. should we just tell our children ( and yes i do consider them my children) that it is better to settle for less that what they think is right? that if the status quo is unfair so be it? what if a group of men had that same opinion 235 some odd years ago. what if they had listened to others who said that the tyranny of king george iii was what it always was and that they knew that when they came to america. that things like the sugar act, the stamp act, the declaratory act , the townshend act , the tea act ( you know, the boston tea party) or the coercive act was not fair but to live with it anyway ( yes i am a social studies teacher)! i wonder ,would we still be speaking the kings’ (queens’) english?
there is an old saying don’t criticize someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes….how many of you are former military, police or teachers????
181. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 4:06pm
rating: 1 thumb down
ok, so now teachers calling in sick is the same as fighting the revolution?
i was with you 100% until you went there.
182. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 4:12pm
rating: 2 thumbs down
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funny how on the face of it, the remarks from marx and fdr sound pretty common sense. at least until you get the generation that's still looking for reds under our bed involved...
183. comment by grey s. (bullpen) — september 14,2007 @ 4:14pm
rating: 3 thumbs up
180 wow, wow,,,, its ok to double up on the meds today. come on, even you have to admit, that was a nutty post.
184. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 4:16pm
rating: 4 thumbs down
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hmm, so intelligence is all about genetics?
what the hell, so the nazis were right, we should be practicing selective breeding?
185. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 4:18pm
rating: 1 thumb up
lol, common sense?
sad news for you but the founders weren't looking under their bed for reds and they were the ones that put the non-marxist government together.
being as no marxist government has ever worked, the fdr and lbj programs are collapsing under their own weight (social security) i don't know how common that sense is.
i guess a better quote would be from mark twain about common sense not being very common.
186. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 4:28pm
rating: 3 thumbs down
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being that marx wasn't even born til some 50 years after the founding, it would have been fairly difficult for them to have formed a marxist govt...
and no, i'm not a commie, at least certainly not in a pure form. pretty much anything in a 'pure' form is going to be extreme...and that includes capitalism.
as for social security, well yes, much of govt ain't looking good when you have incompetents at the head for the last 6 years...
didn't you promise us you were going to leave waayyy back?
187. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 4:43pm
rating: 3 thumbs up
i did leave but i'm back for a bit.
when marx was born is irrelevant as the form of government (socialism, communism etc) he illustrated in the communist manifesto was already in existence, just called something else. it was even practiced for a time in the 1600's in at least one pre-us colony.
got some more bad news for you, but the problem with social security didn't start 6 years ago, it has been an ongoing problem for decades. it is simply worse now as 60% of the population is going to retire leaving less than 40% to support them. that wasn't an issue in corrupt administrations past.
you can blame gw for a lot of things, but social security being bankrupt isn't one of them.
but like every good apparatchik, you think the only reason socialism or socialist type programs didn't work is because you weren't in charge.
188. comment by angie g. (amp) — september 14,2007 @ 4:45pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
teachers have the biggest impact on young lives. teachers encourage young minds to soar. teachers give courage to those who never get a word of encouragement. teacher praise all their students. as a parent i want to encourage teachers to stand up and fight. i want to give them the courage to do what they need to do. most of all i want to praise them in their efforts.
189. comment by grey s. (bullpen) — september 14,2007 @ 4:46pm
rating: 4 thumbs up
#186 don't forget that johnson was every bit as incompetent as as clinton...by the way it was 8 years...
190. comment by joyce w. (joyw) — september 14,2007 @ 4:52pm
rating: 1 thumb down
i would like to ask all the tusd parents how many of them went to their students schools to volunteer today knowing there would be a shortage of staff? positive parent involvement gives the teachers support in the district. lets not make this sick out an racial issue, it is my firm belief the apple doesnt fall far from the tree good or bad. what do our kids do that incites aggressive negative behavior from the teacher? as a parent on patrol volunteer i had kids threaten my life, they didnt like their environment being controlled initially. had 100% of the teaching staff called in sick the district would have been forced to give them a fair raise/wage. as far as that goes the parent should have kept their student/students home...this would send a loud message! lets give our children some credit for being intelligent enough to know that although their educators work extremely hard for lower than most wages they are professional and love their jobs.
191. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 4:55pm
rating: 1 thumb down
and since you've 'formed' marxism before marx was even born, you can also back up your position with quotes from the founding fathers detailing their antipathy towards it...righht...
ok, my bad to lump social security and the incompetency of bush in one sentence...nevertheless you are going to have one tough row to hoe in getting rid of social security as a sizeable majority of the american public want some socialism. it ain't just 'apparatchiks' (my, but you do love to pigeonhole folks..)like me...
bush's incompetency in nearly every area of govt ain't an accident; he and his cronies want govt to fail so they can point their corrupt fingers and go, see, it doesn't work...
192. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 5:00pm
rating: 4 thumbs up
communism pre-marx was called collectivism, it existed most notably in the jamestown colony in the 1600's. despite it's abundance, most people starved to death, because of course, they were waiting for someone else to do the work.
the framers where intelligent men who culled out the best of various forms of government when creating ours. it would be a tedious errand to extract quotes from them about the perils of democracy and collectivism.
you could just as easily dust off one of the many volumes and works by the founders and see for yourself what they had to say as it is common knowledge and evidenced by the fact(s) that no social(ist) programs were created while they were running the show.
dust off a volume by one of them and absorb the knowledge.
193. comment by mike a. (the real deal) — september 14,2007 @ 5:05pm
rating: 4 thumbs up
thanks everyone for the lively debate. i am really off for the night now. i hope everyone has a good night and a good weekend.
194. comment by terry o. (#2041) — september 14,2007 @ 5:13pm
rating: 2 thumbs down
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pay crap wages - get crap teachers.
195. comment by b w. (wilde) — september 14,2007 @ 5:15pm
rating: 3 thumbs down
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while i acknowledge needing to bone up on this stuff, i doubt it is as cut and dried as you make it...history and life rarely are.
but then, it's just all dem damn teachers' fault for walking out on these kids...back to your original whine...that evil collectivist union, trying to get more money for a teacher, it's just wrong...
but you always manage to sidetrack yourself onto something else..
196. comment by liz h. (liz h) — september 14,2007 @ 5:20pm
rating: 2 thumbs down
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if you expected to be paid as much as the administrators, you should have acquired the education and experience required for the job, and then competed for it like everyone else in the real world does for promotions.
no one should be "entitled" to a raise just for showing up (or in this case, not showing up).
for those teachers commenting here, or on the television, you'd make a better case for yourselves if you could speak/write correct english, and spell correctly.
blackmail is not a subject i'd like to see taught to the children you are being paid (with taxpayer dollars) to educate.
$30-60k/year is more than a "living wage". ask someone supporting a family on half that. if you calculated your hourly wage for the half a year you teach, you're grossly overpaid for the education level required to be a teacher.
197. comment by lysa n. (mediamogul) — september 14,2007 @ 5:40pm
rating: 1 thumb down
to #63 who said "well, its good way to teach kids how to get what you want. throw a tantrum!"
was the boston tea party a tantrum? was the boxer rebellion a tantrum? was the march on selma a tantrum? if so, i am proud that i threw a tantrum today.
198. comment by joyce w. (joyw) — september 14,2007 @ 5:43pm
rating: 3 thumbs up
hasnt the tusd district/employees/parents had enough with the superintendent? why is he still in charge? do you know how many phd held positions there are in the district office. put them in the classroom they cannot cope or dont know the first thing about teaching or relating to students/parents? a final note for our educators....we appreciate you all, support your efforts, dont settle for less!
199. comment by sara r. (jsriegert) — september 14,2007 @ 7:17pm
rating: 1 thumb up
to: comment by liz h. (liz h)
all it takes to be a principal (administrator) is a masters degree and a test. many teachers do have these credentials if not more. some have masters and some have phds. many have even more years in the classroom than many administrators. so when you say, "you should have acquired the education and experience required for the job, and then competed for it like everyone else in the real world does for promotions." many of the teacher have acquired the education and more!
also, your saying that, "teachers should compete like everyone else in the real world does." well, many choose not to be an administrator because they love teaching. it does not mean they are not capable of being administrators, and it does not mean that they deserve less pay for choosing to be in direct contact with students instead of a paper pusher.
finally, you say, "for those teachers commenting here, or on the television, you'd make a better case for yourselves if you could speak/write correct english, and spell correctly."
you too had grammatical errors in your post. for example, the word "english"
should have been capitalized, just as the words, "spanish" and "french" would be. so, please stop the insults towards teachers. they are overboard, especially because you too are not perfect.
200. comment by reesa f. (alphageeks) — september 14,2007 @ 7:18pm
rating: 7 thumbs up
as one of the classified central office staff asked to fill in today, i was extremely impressed with the principal's ability to cope with this difficult situation, as well as the other classified staff that "stepped up" to help out. i was also thankful that the teacher left a lesson plan so that his students would not waste the day while he was out. i truly have a new appreciation for what the teachers in our classrooms do on a daily basis.
201. comment by dabil g. (red star) — september 14,2007 @ 8:06pm
rating: 1 thumb down
seems the citizen's schwalbach is going to get a headache, all these posts...
202. comment by katie b. (katieb) — september 14,2007 @ 8:44pm
rating: 5 thumbs up
as an educator for tusd, i feel very confident in responding to your comments. i did attend to my classroom today, because that is what educators do! children first! when teachers call in sick...it is because they are at the end of their line! please know...that we have exhausted all measures to settle the negotiations peacefully. we too, have bills to pay. all we are asking for is, an honest living for an honest days work. i have my bachelors degree, a post-bac degree, as well as, my master's degree. can you say that in your profession??? my cost for preparing to educate your children is of great expense financially. would i do it again? yes!!!! my love is in educating children. i teach people to read. if i am not in my classroom...what will society do with illiterate people. please take this seriously. i am at to the point that i am looking for a job that will support my family. i can no longer support the educational system with my own funds. as it is, i spend an average of $1500 a year on my classroom needs. deduct this from my salary...add taxes that need to be paid...health payments...and retirement benefits being paid to the state...at the end there really isn't much left to take care of my own family. we have as much or more education, as most professions that make $100,000+. however we are treated as if we have no idea of what we need to do to help children succeed. any teacher worth their weight in the classroom is more valuable than the professional athletes that make millions of dollars playing games. you support them. you pay big dollars to attend their games! why can't you support the people that work hard each day to make sure that your childen learn to read?
a very discouraged teacher.... katie b.
203. comment by katie b. (katieb) — september 14,2007 @ 8:49pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
204. comment by katie b. (katieb) — september 14,2007 @ 8:59pm
rating: 1 thumb up
comment to #196 - how dare you comment on something you surely have no understanding of? most teachers have their bachelors degree and a masters degree. all they need to be a principal is 24 more hours of graduate work. please understand that is attainable for a person that has already earned their masters degree. however, thankfully, there are professionals that choose to stay in the classroom to educate children. we are in the classroom because that is where we are the most value to children! have you ever spent a day in a classroom? do you know the requirements placed on teachers? do you understand that we are not only educators, but parent role models and society role models, as well. please comment only when you truly understand the situation!! until then, go to a classroom and volunteer to help the teachers!!!!!!!!!!
205. comment by liz h. (liz h) — september 14,2007 @ 9:05pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
no, 199, my grammar is not perfect. but i am not a teacher. and apparently, my teachers "weren't no better dan day r today".
choosing not to pursue a position you are qualified for does not entitle you to the same pay as the person holding the position. my phd in business does not mean that i am entitled to more pay than bill gates, who has a lesser degree. having the credentials, and doing the job, are two different things.
206. comment by liz h. (liz h) — september 14,2007 @ 9:17pm
rating: 2 thumbs down
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and 204 - how dare you assume i have no understanding? i've spent thousands of hours volunteering in schools, babysitting incompetent teachers, and tutoring the students that no teacher or administrator cared about because the child wasn't popular, rich, or outgoing. some society role model.
207. comment by katie b. (katieb) — september 14,2007 @ 9:20pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
comment ot 205 - teachers are not asking to be paid the same wage as administrators! we are merely asking for a pay raise that equates to the cost of living!
208. comment by terry n. (mtmn) — september 14,2007 @ 10:19pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
i am angry that tusd asked that students be sent to school today and then sent them off campus at 11:30. i was fortunatly able to pick up my boy but lost wages doing so. i pray that the students are all safe tonight. the tusd school board could have avoided this by offering the 2.5 - 3 % pay raise from the beginning. this should be investigated at the state level.
209. comment by jerry f. (plato) — september 15,2007 @ 2:13am
rating: 0 thumbs up
197. comment by lysa n. (mediamogul) — september 14,2007 @ 5:40pm
rating: 2 thumbs up
to #63 who said "well, its good way to teach kids how to get what you want. throw a tantrum!"
was the boston tea party a tantrum? was the boxer rebellion a tantrum? was the march on selma a tantrum? if so, i am proud that i threw a tantrum today.
wow, you think that this walkout is comparable to the boston tea party or the march on selma? you are delusional!
you chose the career but you whine about the conditions. sounds like your hitting yourself in the head with a hammer and asking why you have a headache.
didn't you get a 3% raise last year? now your demanding a 5% this year.
have you walked out or gone on strike almost every year?
210. comment by ken o. (#2285) — september 15,2007 @ 6:05am
rating: 1 thumb down
those teachers deserve both a cost-of-living increase to pace inflation and a boost in hourly wage rates as a humble statement of our thanksgiving for a job well done - inspite of having to put up with high school kids of this txting, narcistic generation of rotters.
211. comment by holly c. (holly) — september 15,2007 @ 9:18am
rating: 2 thumbs up
jamie c - i, too, was shocked to see your comments getting thumbed down. you, after all, represent the would-be beneficiary of what this argument is all about.
trouble is, you entered the discussion after it had degraded into a junior-high cafeteria food fight, and whoever thumbed down your comments is self-absorbed and not arguing on your behalf but only on his/her/their own.
for anyone willing to read any more on this . . .
no one "deserves" anything just for having a title or position. it cannot be simply generalized that all teachers are worth more than they are being paid. nor can it be generalized the other way around, nor that home-schooling is the answer, etc. simple logic says that the system must change based on unemotional, unpolitical, logical evaluation to find out what isn't working, why it isn't working, and correctly repairing those things. there are guidelines the evaluator(s) may follow, such as the free market system's success in the american economy. good teachers and good administrators will not be afraid of that.
212. comment by holly c. (holly) — september 15,2007 @ 9:27am
rating: 3 thumbs up
#116, grey (bullpen) -- blush. i had left my computer up on this thread all afternoon and evening when i went off to run errands, and just saw your very flattering comment this morning, just as i was about to reboot and take care of today's mail. saw jamie's too ...
i think i'd be utterly trampled in today's version of politics. i am afraid politics is part of the problem.
thank you very much for your kind words.
213. comment by julie m. (jules7) — september 15,2007 @ 10:01am
rating: 2 thumbs up
"one final comment: words that are misspelled can have a different meaning than the one you meant to convey. there is a lot of misspelled words in these comments. i hope that they don't come from the many teachers commenting today."
you might want to double check your grammar...
214. comment by sara r. (jsriegert) — september 15,2007 @ 10:38am
rating: 1 thumb up
to: 205. comment by liz h. (liz h)
you said, "no, 199, my grammar is not perfect. but i am not a teacher. and apparently, my teachers weren't no better dan day r today."
your comment implies that you are "blaming" teachers for your grammar errors. again, that is a fine line. especially because you have that phd that you boasted. here's why...
what ever happened to being a "self directed learner?" learning on your own for all that you lack? i mean, i have had teachers too that have let me down, but that did not stop me from pursuing the right way to do things.
at the phd level, i would have expected that to have occurred. so again, i feel that the blaming of teachers for your grammar is a little over the top.
in regards to your other comment about having credentials and doing the work being two different things, i agree with comment #207 katie b. she summed up my rebuttal.
215. comment by julie m. (jules7) — september 15,2007 @ 10:48am
rating: 1 thumb up
a note about the parent support in our schools: many of you who are writing in and bashing teachers for their choices regarding negotiations of contracts are parents, but where were you yesterday??? i have yet to read a post written by someone who said they showed up at their child's school to help out (nor did i see any parent support in the school that i work at... and i was in my classroom with the students). we can complain about the public school system all day.. there are many good teachers out there, and unfortunately, there are some not so good teachers... but education must start in the home. raise your children to be thoughtful, respectful, and productive citizens, and then allow me the opportunity to see what i can do with these minds in the classroom.
i am not only speaking as a teacher, but as a parent also frustrated with the school system... frustrated that my daughter has to attempt to learn in an environment in which some less-than-involved parents send their kids to as a baby sitting service.
216. comment by merle b. (merlebreiland) — september 15,2007 @ 10:49am
rating: 1 thumb down
change the pay for teachers to that of paying teachers individually for their capabilities and their performance. until that happens the support for increased pay for all teachers will be pretty minimal. teachers, throw out the union and conduct yourselves in a professional manner and the pay will follow.
217. comment by phil d. (phild) — september 15,2007 @ 11:08am
rating: 1 thumb down
i wish i had known more parents like liz h. when my son was in school. he was told he should never correct the teacher's grammar or spelling...(good grief - he was right and she was wrong) because it was disrespectful. this was in the so-called "gate" program and most the students already realized how incompetent many teachers were. we all know people with masters degrees - or phd's, etc. - who easily prove how meaningless many kinds of "education" actually are.
218. comment by sara r. (jsriegert) — september 15,2007 @ 11:10am
rating: 0 thumbs up
merle,
when we study the possible ramifications of performance pay, it's a study of "cause and effect"
imagine teachers being rewarded for outstanding test scores. you now open the door for "cheating" to occur. how easy would it be to leave the classroom with the exam answers on your desk? i'm not saying that all teachers will cheat to earn more. however, we all know that in all professions, business, government, etc. corruption happens. it is best to keep the corruption away from our schools and honor all of those brave souls who stepped into the profession.
i do want to say that with nclb (no child left behind) the accountability for teachers is getting better. so it is hard to compare today's teachers with the teachers of yesterday. teachers today should get more, because there is more being asked of their performance now days!
219. comment by merle b. (merlebreiland) — september 15,2007 @ 12:05pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
sara,
i hadn't even thought about cheating in the way you described as i thought teachers would be more professional. i guess that isn't always the case however.
performance could be judged in more ways then in just test scores however. attendance by students could be another factor. i.e. if students were to enjoy learning because of the interest created by the teacher the attendance would be better. regular classroom visits by principals and school board members could produce performance reports as well. participation in further education would also provide another point in rewarding performance.
anway, i do think that nclb is producing better results no matter what the union is saying and so that certainly has been a move in the right direction. rewarding individual teachers for performance would also help to weed out those that would be better off doing something else.
my daughter-in-law is a teacher in a christian school and she constantly is looking for ways to improve her teaching. she has incorporated special field trips to enhance her student's interest in learning and thinks "outside the box" to further that goal. at the present time she is working on her masters program during the summer months to learn better ways to improve her teaching.
teaching is a great profession and those who truly devote themselves to a professional approach to teaching should be paid much better. i see this happening in private schools but not in the public school system.
220. comment by sonya h. (dinestar) — september 15,2007 @ 2:11pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
169. comment by tony t.
i completely agree with you...if it's a good paying job that you want, than pursue a different line of work. i also feel that when they start asking my children to miss school...who's best interest is that for, themselves or the kids? i often wonder if they get paid more...i better see my children in far more advance classes. currently they are in the gate program, basketball, etc...so they are already smart, but mostly in part for me teaching them what is not being taught in school.
221. comment by sonya h. (dinestar) — september 15,2007 @ 2:16pm
rating: 1 thumb up
215. comment by julie m.
putting your parent bashing to the side, did you ever think that many of the students in the district may come from a single parent home?? for a single parent, leaving work for volunteering is not always the best way to handle a situation when the family is going to get the short end of the stick. ps....i was a single mom for several years till recently and my husband and myself are very active in our schools...cragin and doolen. but my job is to be supportive of my children, not the teachers, isn't that why taxes are taking out of my paycheck in order to pay for yours??
222. comment by julie m. (jules7) — september 15,2007 @ 10:54pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
in response to 221:
i've been a single parent for years, so i imagine i did keep that in mind when i posted. did you ever stop to think that many of the teachers in our district are parents as well, and that's the reason they're fighting for better wages... to ensure that their families don't get the "short end of the stick." because you were a single mom, i would think that you would be a little more understanding of the desire to be able to take care of one's family.
as for the taxes from your paychecks paying for mine, that's another thing that tends to get overlooked... teachers pay taxes too.
one final thought, it sounds like you have done a fantastic job raising your children. but if you're responsible for teaching them what they need to know, why send that to school at all?
223. comment by mick s. (teach3rd) — september 16,2007 @ 9:27am
rating: 0 thumbs up
we feed them. we nurture them. we deal with the most nuerotic parents who send their children to school looking of filth. we accept the responsibilty of trying to bring up their skills that some suits downtown deam to be important. we fend off the verbal and sometimes worse assaults on our integrity by administrators who couldn't teach if their life depended on it. we are constantly compared to other countries where only those who can pass go to school...(here everyone is entitled thankfully so). we get summers off, but are not paid during that time! often times we are required to attend meaningless workshops that have no chance of bettering our craft. we ask for a fare wage, one that is equal to our colleagues across the nation. we we we we we... somewhere in there we teach. we are men and women, moms and dads, black and white and latino and asian. we live we learn. next week we ... strike?
224. comment by sonya h. (dinestar) — september 17,2007 @ 1:01pm
rating: 0 thumbs up
#222
teachers are being paid to be there...not the single parents!!! if you say you're a single parent, then you would understand that, but obviously you don't. i didn't overlook that you get taxes out either, but you have other benefits out there that other people in the city, state, etc aren't qualified to recieve. guess that gets overlooked too. but probably need to do some homework on that aspect also. i have teachers in my family also, but they never complain about their wages.. and they work on our reservation, where it is like a third world country in most parts. they went to teaching to help our younger generation, and have often told me that seeing them learn is compensation enough.
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