david,phild

archive-date: thu, 01 jun 2000 02:27:56 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 01 jun 2000 10:27:09 +0100 from: hugh stewart reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: newcastle to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: barbara carter wrote: > > could someone point me toward a detailed description of the steps > to newcastle? we tried to dance it using playford's original > directions, and had some difficulties deciding how far around to > circle when doing the star, and how many times to side/arm while > progressing. it didn't seem to fit the music very well. > > thanks! > > barbara carter > bcarter-at- cfa.harvard.edu see http://www.cam.ac.uk/societies/round/dances/palmer.htm#newcastle for a brief description of the standard (cecil sharp) interpretation ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 01 jun 2000 06:02:32 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 01 jun 2000 08:00:03 -0400 from: gene murrow reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: newcastle to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- permanent address: - for your address book isp of the moment: - "reply" button destination ________________________________________________________________ you're paying too much for the internet! juno now offers free internet access! try it today - there's no risk! for your free software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 01 jun 2000 09:10:16 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 01 jun 2000 17:01:01 +0100 from: michael barraclough reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: announce: friends of globe theatre sun june 4, london uk to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit michael barraclough (dance) and ian gatiss (baroque fiddle) will be providing an introduction to the basic principles of seventeenth & eighteenth century english country dance, details as follows: sunday 4 june 11am - 4.30pm (register from 10.30 am) bankside house (adjacent to the new tate gallery modern, globe theatre etc) ample parking bring your own lunch (cofee/tea available) further details from shirley newton 020 8698 6268 -----original message----- from: owner-ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu [mailto:owner-ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu]on behalf of patricia ruggiero sent: 31 may 2000 19:15 to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: newcastle the playford ball (keller and shimer) has the music, cecil sharp's reconstruction, and the original instructions. pat -----original message----- from: owner-ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu [mailto:owner-ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu]on behalf of barbara carter sent: wednesday, may 31, 2000 1:34 pm to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu subject: newcastle could someone point me toward a detailed description of the steps to newcastle? we tried to dance it using playford's original directions, and had some difficulties deciding how far around to circle when doing the star, and how many times to side/arm while progressing. it didn't seem to fit the music very well. thanks! barbara carter bcarter-at- cfa.harvard.edu ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 01 jun 2000 10:38:31 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 01 jun 2000 12:36:48 -0400 from: gene murrow reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: potholes on the information superhighway to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain content-transfer-encoding: 7bit sorry about the inadvertent private reply to loretta going to the public list, and blank newcastle reply (i have nothing to add :-) ). trying some experiments with new features of the ol' email program. of course now there's this 3rd spurious email. reminds me of peter barnes' routine after he accidently swears loudly when his microphone is still turned on... he splutters "oh f*ck, i just said sh*t into the microphone!" or when i teach, and someone blurts out "gene, can i ask you a question?" i usually reply "you just did, the proper request is 'gene, can i ask you 2 questions?'" basta! gene ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- permanent address: - for your address book isp of the moment: - "reply" button destination ________________________________________________________________ you're paying too much for the internet! juno now offers free internet access! try it today - there's no risk! for your free software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 01 jun 2000 12:09:25 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 01 jun 2000 15:10:40 -0400 from: "michael j. o'connor" reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: potholes to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: and, of course, the proper reply to "do you know what the name of this dance is?" is "yes" (or "no," as the case may be). ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 01 jun 2000 23:01:32 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 02 jun 2000 02:00:45 -0400 (edt) from: harvbcohen-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: joint english american parties to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i know that this is an english dance forum but some of us in boston would like to try bring back the old days when we were able to have a successful joint dance party that was a mixture of both english and new england style dancing. at this time we are two very distinct factions, english and contra with less and less cross over. in order to revive the joint party tradition, i would think that there would have to be some changes in each of the factions. we do not want to break what is now working. we need to be gentle and it might take a year of subtle changes before we can pull off the first event. what thoughts do have about this and what things would you do? twenty years ago both factions included the same pat shaw material. for our first event, our first reaction is we should have a single caller/leader that is known by both factions. that might be one task. i would think we would need to have it in a hall that both factions have been using. what dances or formations would you include or stay away from in the initial events? what are some other considerations that we would need to focus on? most of us are members of cdss which is english ( not just playford) and american (not just contras and becketts) and ritual and song. cross over should be happening. i think that is goodness. thank you, harvey cohen ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 02 jun 2000 02:07:24 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 02 jun 2000 02:06:38 -0700 (pdt) from: alan winston - ssrl central computing subject: re: joint english american parties to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit harvey cohen writes: >i know that this is an english dance forum but some of us in boston would >like to try bring back the old days when we were able to have a successful >joint dance party that was a mixture of both english and new england style >dancing. at this time we are two very distinct factions, english and contra >with less and less cross over. >in order to revive the joint party tradition, i would think that there would >have to be some changes in each of the factions. we do not want to break what >is now working. we need to be gentle and it might take a year of subtle >changes before we can pull off the first event. what thoughts do have about >this and what things would you do? twenty years ago both factions included >the same pat shaw material. [i think this was your first post on the ecd list. welcome!] out here in the sf bay area, we have a similar situation, with a lot of people who go to contra dances and never go to english dances, and distinctly fewer people who attend english dances regularly. our fall dance weekend - which i've managed or co-managed for the last ten years - has strong english and american programs (and ritual dance as well). the evening dance programs are always mixed. it's gotten to the point where attendees are mostly people who are interested in both genres, although we still sometimes get evaluations that complain about "too much english," usually about as many as say "too many squares." some things we've learned about running high-energy, high-quality mixed dance parties at camp: 1) if you intermingle english and contra dances, it's hard to develop that contra high. (the "contra high" may have been less prevalent 20 years ago, when it wasn't quite so much everybody-active hyper-flowing contras, but that's what people expect now from a contra evening.) we've found that it works better to batch things into english sandwiched by american, or american sandwiched by english. (since we have two evening dances and a farewell dance party, we can make the proportions work out fairly over the weekend.) 2) minimize the time spent in band and sound changeovers. you don't want many long pauses. 3) around here, you can figure that most english dancers are pretty good contra dancers, and you can call somewhat challenging contras. there is, however, a limit on the complexity of english dance you can get away with, especially when you want to avoid the dreaded 'more teaching than dancing'. the mixed contra-english party is the wrong place for "cupid's garden" or "joy after sorrow." (and even dances with simple figures may have challenges; people completely unused to dancing in 3/2 may have trouble with "anna maria.") >for our first event, our first reaction is we should have a single >caller/leader that is known by both factions. that might be one task. i would >think we would need to have it in a hall that both factions have been using. >what dances or formations would you include or stay away from in the initial >events? what are some other considerations that we would need to focus on? here's some gross generalizations: around here, contra dancers turn out for hot bands [although a caller they've had a bad experience with can keep them away] and english dancers turn out for hot callers. if that's true there, then you want the best bands possible. book both yankee ingenuity and bare necessities, or book blt for both parts, or some such. i don't think it's necessarily required to book a bilingual caller, although there are some good ones out there: scott higgs, lisa greenleaf, and susan kevra spring to mind. (or you could just get bob dalsemer to come and do a mixture of singing squares, danish country dances, and appalachian big circle dances. not what _anybody_ is used to any more, and loads of fun.) you really need warm fuzzy friendly but extremely lucid caller. you probably need not to violate too many expectations at once. contra dancers aren't used to getting much instruction about dancing, and may get turned off if they get lectured about sloppiness. make it really clear in the publicity that this is a mixed event. you'll still get some people who never get the word but you really have to do your best to get people who are prepared to at least put up with the other form being there. i think you're probably better off letting the caller pick the dances and formations. (but i'll spitball something anyway: i think this is an environment in which mixers followed by "keep this partner and form squares" or some such is a really good idea, since the evening won't be successful if the two different factions keep entirely to themselves. and you have to do walpole cottage if at least thirty people show up.) rattling on: why not advertise this a series of "special dances", and have one be, for example, "classic contras" with things like sackett's harbor? english dancers can get their complexity and variety; american dancers get contra dances. mix with mixers like "lucky 7" (which are neither english nor american, really); see how it goes. good luck, and please report back. -- alan =============================================================================== alan winston --- winston-at- ssrl.slac.stanford.edu disclaimer: i speak only for myself, not slac or ssrl phone: 650/926-3056 physical mail to: ssrl -- slac bin 69, po box 4349, stanford, ca 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 02 jun 2000 09:26:12 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 02 jun 2000 17:25:05 +0100 from: eldridge keith reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: joint english american parties to: "'ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu'" , ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit harvey cohen < harvbcohen-at- aol.com > wrote: > i know that this is an english dance forum but some of us in > boston would > like to try bring back the old days when we were able to have > a successful > joint dance party that was a mixture of both english and new > england style > dancing. at this time we are two very distinct factions, > english and contra > with less and less cross over. here in england we do this all the time. many, probably most, clubs do a mixture of english and american (contra) dances. the ratio is weighted towards the english, but ultimately depends on the caller. when i call for a club night (to recorded music) i tend to do about half and half. when working with a band it does depend on the band's repertoire. with a versatile band, you can call what you want and i like a variety dance styles, so that is what i call. regards elmo -- --keith elmo eldridge --manchester, england --elmo.eldridge-at- totalise.co.uk keith.eldridge-at- labsystems.com --flying clouds contra - american contra dancing in north-west england --http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/opsis/contra.htm --i am, therefore i dance. i dance therefore i am. ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 02 jun 2000 09:26:15 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 02 jun 2000 17:25:05 +0100 from: eldridge keith reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: joint english american parties to: "'ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu'" , ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit harvey cohen < harvbcohen-at- aol.com > wrote: > i know that this is an english dance forum but some of us in > boston would > like to try bring back the old days when we were able to have > a successful > joint dance party that was a mixture of both english and new > england style > dancing. at this time we are two very distinct factions, > english and contra > with less and less cross over. here in england we do this all the time. many, probably most, clubs do a mixture of english and american (contra) dances. the ratio is weighted towards the english, but ultimately depends on the caller. when i call for a club night (to recorded music) i tend to do about half and half. when working with a band it does depend on the band's repertoire. with a versatile band, you can call what you want and i like a variety dance styles, so that is what i call. regards elmo -- --keith elmo eldridge --manchester, england --elmo.eldridge-at- totalise.co.uk keith.eldridge-at- labsystems.com --flying clouds contra - american contra dancing in north-west england --http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/opsis/contra.htm --i am, therefore i dance. i dance therefore i am. ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 02 jun 2000 09:43:10 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 02 jun 2000 12:42:24 -0400 (edt) from: "susan r. lorand" reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: joint english american parties to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on fri, 2 jun 2000 harvey cohen wrote: > i know that this is an english dance forum but some of us in boston would > like to try bring back the old days when we were able to have a successful > joint dance party that was a mixture of both english and new england style > dancing. at this time we are two very distinct factions, english and contra > with less and less cross over. we are still doing this occasionally in princeton, nj: the program for pcd's winter cotillion (2nd sunday in december) features a mixture of english and contra dances. all of the available local callers take turns, which does mean that we dance about 2/3 contras. some of our contra callers have learned a few english dances and will call them on this occasion. the princeton country dancers will try out a special mix of english and american dances next month: wednesday, july 19 caller: scott higgs band: the free radicals suzanne patterson center, behind princeton borough hall & police station monument drive, near intersection of route 27 and 206 princeton, nj, usa our hall is air conditioned, so don't let the heat and humidity keep you away. we welcome visiting dancers from out of town. please inquire in advance if you need a place to stay. check our website for more info. about pcd events: http://www.princetonol.com/groups/pcd/ --susie lorand pcd committee member & fiddler/recorder player in the free radicals ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 02 jun 2000 10:47:12 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 02 jun 2000 13:31:01 -0400 from: michael bergman reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: joint english american parties to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: > harvey cohen writes: > > >in order to revive the joint party tradition, i would think that > there would >>have to be some changes in each of the factions. we do not want to break what >>is now working. we need to be gentle and it might take a year of subtle >>changes before we can pull off the first event. what thoughts do have about >>this and what things would you do? twenty years ago both factions included > >the same pat shaw material. alan wrote: > 1) if you intermingle english and contra dances, it's hard to develop that > contra high. (the "contra high" may have been less prevalent 20 years ago, > when it wasn't quite so much everybody-active hyper-flowing > contras, but that's what people expect now from a contra evening.) > we've found that it works better to batch things into english > sandwiched by american, or american > sandwiched by english. (since we have two evening dances and a > farewell dance > party, we can make the proportions work out fairly over the weekend.) and also: > you want the best bands possible. book both yankee ingenuity and > bare necessities, or book blt for both parts, or some such. i'd like to throw in my own two cents. first of all, i think that alan is dead on the money about that "contra high" thing. that is, that the absence of it, or perceived absence of an opportunity for it, will keep contra dancers away. secondly, every now and then a contra dance caller and band slip an english dance in on thursday at the contra dance. the "hotter" bands tend to go for a fairly strong alternation of fast and slow numbers, with good reason, and sometimes one of the slow numbers is actually an english dance, that can be danced either as a slow contra or as a normal tempo ecd. sometimes, these dances speed up again later, and sometimes they don't. this is not something that happens all that often, but the fact that they get away with it is encouraging and leads me to think that the secret is not to tell the dancers what they're doing... finally, a local note: yankee ingenuity? bare necessities? fine bands, among the best in the world, but they play every week. they live here. i don't think that they'd be that much of a special draw. on the other hand, if they're interested, i think that they'd be great for this experiment, just because of the overlap in members - rather than having two separate bands switching off, we could have one sort of uber-band, playing both types of material, with members switching on and off stage. on the other hand, there are lots of other bands that play both types of material as well. i think it would be better to have one band playing both types of material, with one caller, and slip the ecd in as replacements for "slow" contras to let people recover after a high-energy contra. what day of the week is a bigger hassle, though, in my opinion. i think that you can't easily do it on a thursday without alienating some of the regular dancers, and ditto for trying it on a wednesday, with the added downside of not being likely to pull in contra dancers on a wednesday. some friday might work, or if yi really likes the idea and wants to adopt it, i think that a monday might work. one of cds's 5th saturday dances might also work, especially as they are already being used as an opportunity to experiment, but of course you'd have to get the organizer on board, you can't just co-opt her dance... well, i guess that's six cents worth. one last thing -- it sounds like a fun time to me! --mike bergman ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 02 jun 2000 11:23:23 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 02 jun 2000 13:38:11 -0400 from: gaff-at- neu.edu (terence gaffney) reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: joint english american parties to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit alan and michael both refer to "that contra high". gentlemen, define your terms, please! best, terry ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 02 jun 2000 12:27:14 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 02 jun 2000 15:26:27 -0400 (edt) from: "susan r. lorand" reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: joint english american parties to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit further to my earlier shameless plug about pcd's upcoming english & american evening with scott higgs (july 19, princeton, nj), i've been told that i gave the date & place but not the time. it's 8-10:30 p.m. (beginners' workshop, if needed, at 7:40 p.m.). i also forgot to explain that the wednesday night dance is usually contra but occasionally english, so it's actually logistically quite simple for us to plan a mixed evening - apart from finding the right caller and band, that is. cheers, susie lorand princeton, nj, usa ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 02 jun 2000 12:39:37 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 02 jun 2000 12:38:51 -0700 (pdt) from: alan winston - ssrl central computing subject: re: joint english american parties to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit terry writes: alan and michael both refer to "that contra high". gentlemen, define your terms, please! gross oversimplification: an endorphin rush. take "contra" in the rest of this argument as "contemporary urban us contra." contra is about the joy of ceaseless motion to exciting music in an extremely narrow emotional range. choreographic innovations are almost invariably in the service of flow and motion. contra has traded variety for intensity. at a successful contra dance, the dancers collect energy from each other and from the music, master the sequence for an individual dance very quickly, hit a groove and stay in it for, oh, 17 or 20 repeats. the dancers hearts beat faster, they sweat, and they may trance out, achieving a zenlike mindlessness while still participating fully in the dance. since they rarely stop moving, they rarely have to think about what comes next - the flow of the dance moves them along. [and this helps to produce an unwelcoming attitude to newcomers or slow learners. the zen flow only works if people are where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be there. that helps to produce center set syndrome, although i gather that isn't universal.] enjoying or appreciating this doesn't inherently prohibit enjoying other kinds of dances, even enjoying them more, but being addicted to this makes it hard to appreciate any other kind of dance, especially ones that require intellectual exertion. (thus, i think, some of the anti-square sentiment we also see.) [it appears that in the brit folk scene now, the function of contra dances is fulfilled by ceilidh dances. the joy of motion may be joy of stepping, but they're similar in having simple dances to really exciting, eclectic, propulsive music. one participant on the eceilidh mailing list talks about 'tantric' dancing, which - if i understand him right - is what i'm talking about above on the contra high. incidentally, when wild asparagus went to sidmouth, the ceilidh dancers _loved_ them.] there aren't that many joy-of-motion ec dances, and most of those are unequal: hambleton's round o, jack's health, female saylor, dublin bay, trip to kilbourne, maybe prince william - how many others? ecd has to some extent traded intensity for variety. different meters of music, different tempi, different moods, different formations, different stepping, different aesthetics, and occasional timing or pattern challenges. a lot of good ecd engages the intellect more than contra dance does. we also tend not to run as many repeats of each dance once we have it. this works for the people it works for - among whom i certainly include myself - but it is nearly antithetical to the production of the contra high. (the closest i've gotten to that in ecd was late nights at dance camps where the band played ecd favorites we all or mostly knew and could do without calling or with only brief reminders, and we could just do them - and it wasn't very close.) english has other kinds of peaks - i've had a bare necessities where i just wanted to marry all five other people and take them home, and i wouldn't trade a good miss de jersey's for the best contra medley i've ever danced - but these don't mix and match well with the contra high i mentioned earlier. [vanessa, looking over my shoulder, remarks that there are some ecdances that produce the "joy of slow motion", a meditative trance rather than a vigorous trance. for example, irish lamentation, fair & softly, bare necessities. she remarks further that she's had very few peak dance experiences in contra, but remembers fondly a number of ecd peaks - and that ecd provides endorphin highs with more texture and contrast. "my designer drug is ecd."] --alan -- alan =============================================================================== alan winston --- winston-at- ssrl.slac.stanford.edu disclaimer: i speak only for myself, not slac or ssrl phone: 650/926-3056 physical mail to: ssrl -- slac bin 69, po box 4349, stanford, ca 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 02 jun 2000 13:57:29 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 02 jun 2000 13:56:44 -0700 (pdt) from: orly krasner reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: slow motion highs to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; format=flowed content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi, all! alan just referred to the "joy of slow motion," which prompted me to recall a recent ecd-high. it was an autumnal fried herman workshop at which she taught colin hume's "muriel's measure." we danced it at a tempo slow enough that colin would have approved. it's not easy controlling one's body gracefully at that speed, but oh my did those "up a doubles" feel good! otoh, i've also had the occasional "contra high." to me, there's another difference between the two types of euphoria. i tend to remember contra highs as a self-centered event. the ecd highs, more often, have other people involved in the memory of them. it's something else i treasure about dancing. --orly krasner okrasner-at- hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ get your private, free e-mail from msn hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 02 jun 2000 14:04:55 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 02 jun 2000 14:04:08 -0700 (pdt) from: alan winston - ssrl central computing subject: re: slow motion highs to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit orly wrote: alan just referred to the "joy of slow motion," which prompted me to recall a recent ecd-high. actually, i was quoting vanessa, who was standing over my shoulder at the time. credit where credit is due. this all gives me an excuse to mention that i called orly's dance, "evergreen", at the san jose ecd just this wednesday, to very good response. this dance manages to combine a flowy feel with enough intellectual activity to keep ecders interested. swell dance! > otoh, i've also had the occasional "contra high." to me, there's another >difference between the two types of euphoria. i tend to remember contra >highs as a self-centered event. the ecd highs, more often, have other >people involved in the memory of them. it's something else i treasure about >dancing. i think i subscribe to this. the contra high may leave me with a generally warm feeling about everybody in the room; the ecd peak tends to involve a specific group of other people. (i think it's hard to bond with everybody in a longways for as many as will, but that epoxy can really stick in - to mention some dances where i've felt peaks - "bare necessities", "fandango", "heidenroslein". in a longways that bonding is likelier to be experienced as (at least temporarily) falling in love with your partner; i can think of recent cases of doing that in "miss de jersey's." -- alan =============================================================================== alan winston --- winston-at- ssrl.slac.stanford.edu disclaimer: i speak only for myself, not slac or ssrl phone: 650/926-3056 physical mail to: ssrl -- slac bin 69, po box 4349, stanford, ca 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 03 jun 2000 01:11:30 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 03 jun 2000 01:10:46 -0700 (pdt) from: andrew peterson reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: joint english american parties to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --- alan winston - ssrl central computing > > [...the zen flow only works if people are where they're > supposed to be > when they're supposed to be there. many contra dancers don't understand the relationship between the music and the dance (mainly because it's never been explained to them). their timing is off and they are *never* where they are supposed to be except by chance. mike richardson called a contra to a slip-jig (which is in 9/8 time) sunday evening at northwest folklife. it really threw a lot of the people in my set, despite mike explaining how the timing worked. the next active man down the line from me was never in the right place and i got kicked and stepped on a couple times. the crowning insult was when we collided and i actually felt a snap in my lower back that i cannot remember ever feeling before in 35 years of dancing. i sat out a dance to assess the damage. it seems to be all right, but i remember thinking at the time that if i couldn't move in the morning i was staying at the right house. i was part of the mob staying at frank clayton's house. the biggest difference i have observed between folklife and neffa is that folklife is held at seattle center (the old world's fair grounds) which is a very public place whereas neffa is held at a remote site where the people attending are there specifically for that event. the result is a very high caliber of dancing at neffa and a high number of new-or-non-dancers who just happened to wander by the doors of the dance pavilion at folklife. although it is a great way to expose what we do to new blood, the roadhouse at folklife can be a very dangerous place to dance. the ecd session that nan evens called on monday was very good, not crowded and presented some dances with enough difficulty that it challenged people. for the most part they proved up to the challenge. it was interesting to note the look on the faces of the contra dancers when she called for a hey for three. most of them have never thought that you could do a hey with anything other than four people. > that helps to produce > center set syndrome, > although i gather that isn't universal.] > have you ever noticed that even if there are only two sets one of them is the center set and remains there unless the caller specifically tells them to move over?? > > ...ecd has to > some extent > traded intensity for variety. different meters of music, > different tempi, > different moods, different formations, different stepping, > different > aesthetics, and occasional timing or pattern challenges. a > lot of good ecd > engages the intellect more than contra dance does. > the variety is, in my opinion, the exact reason that many people claim not to like ecd (although there are many english dances that you could do and they would never know they were english). with ecds variety they have to think more about it. contra dancers don't want to have to think. andy in portland __________________________________________________ do you yahoo!? yahoo! photos -- now, 100 free prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 03 jun 2000 06:55:41 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 03 jun 2000 14:54:28 +0100 from: eldridge keith reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: joint english american parties to: "'ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu'" message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit michael bergman < eclectic-at- mit.edu > wrote : > finally, a local note: yankee ingenuity? bare necessities? fine > bands, among the best in the world, but they play every week. they > live here. i don't think that they'd be that much of a special draw. they are a special draw to me. i can feel the pull from 3000 miles away. if only the atlantic wasn't in the way, i'd be there every week :-) regards elmo -- --keith elmo eldridge --manchester, england --elmo.eldridge-at- totalise.co.uk keith.eldridge-at- labsystems.com --flying clouds contra - american contra dancing in north-west england --http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/opsis/contra.htm --i am, therefore i dance. i dance therefore i am. ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 03 jun 2000 10:35:26 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 03 jun 2000 12:34:10 from: phil d'agostino reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: slow motion highs to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit alan winston wrote: >this all gives me an excuse to mention that i called orly's dance, >"evergreen", at the san jose ecd just this wednesday, to very good response. >this dance manages to combine a flowy feel with enough intellectual activity >to keep ecders interested. swell dance! *** if i may stick my nose in here briefly...i've been reading a few messages lately about orly krasner's dances ( she apparently has written more than a few..). are they published anywhere? phil d'agostino ( fairfield, iowa ecd dancers) >=========================================================================== ==== > alan winston --- winston-at- ssrl.slac.stanford.edu > disclaimer: i speak only for myself, not slac or ssrl phone: 650/926-3056 > physical mail to: ssrl -- slac bin 69, po box 4349, stanford, ca 94309-0210 >=========================================================================== ==== > > > phil d'agostino systems engineering-dept. of communcations maharishi university of management fairfield, iowa 52557 515-472-7000 x2001 515-472-1137(fax) 515-472-1228 box 1000 (voice mail) phild-at- mum.edu ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 03 jun 2000 11:45:12 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 03 jun 2000 14:44:23 -0400 (edt) from: wolfelinda-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: ecd digest v1 #746 to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i'm with orly! also, seem to recall in an earlier digest on this subject someone saying contra pulled in more people. that puzzled me, as i understand that in new york contra has been losing money, while english is making it. what is new york doing right? linda wolfe ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 03 jun 2000 14:03:24 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 03 jun 2000 23:01:36 +0200 from: han daamen reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: list to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit signoff quit ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 03 jun 2000 15:50:46 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 03 jun 2000 15:49:59 -0700 (pdt) from: meier-at- ssrl.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: slow motion highs to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit orly wrote: >> otoh, i've also had the occasional "contra high." to me, there's another >>difference between the two types of euphoria. i tend to remember contra >>highs as a self-centered event. the ecd highs, more often, have other >>people involved in the memory of them. it's something else i treasure about >>dancing. and alan wrote: >i think i subscribe to this. the contra high may leave me with a generally >warm feeling about everybody in the room; the ecd peak tends to involve a >specific group of other people. (i think it's hard to bond with everybody >in a longways for as many as will, but that epoxy can really stick in - to >mention some dances where i've felt peaks - "bare necessities", "fandango", >"heidenroslein". in a longways that bonding is likelier to be experienced as >(at least temporarily) falling in love with your partner; i can think of >recent cases of doing that in "miss de jersey's." hmmn....especially when i compare these two paragraphs i see that the distinction i make isn't really about "slow motion" per se, it's just that it's easier to get there in slower motion. thinking even more, i realize it's a question of whether that "high" is more or less diffuse. that is, the spectrum narrows from an oceanic sense of moving with the room down to that tantric bond with a single dance partner. it's relatively easy to get a generalized oceanic feeling in a contra dance, where you've got a better than average chance of the music being right and the dance being right and people being able to sync up enough that you can feel the dancers breathing together. a flowy english country dance can achieve the same effect -- you either need a dance where people have time to match velocities, or don't have time to do anything else. as the group size shrinks it's harder to achieve that herd nirvana. except maybe for late-night pickup dancing, as alan mentioned -- people stop caring about dancing correctly and dance more to have fun, which means the dance itself gets better as dancers laugh it up. the late-night effect works for both ecd and contra. but the bond doesn't become truly mystical until the smaller set dances. this is why i like ecd at its best more than contra at its best. (is there anyone out there who's had a peak dance experience with squares?) ecd provides more chances to really synchronize with your partner, so you can match not just velocities but what i'll call vibes. many of the ecdances were written to fit their music, so the music provides synchronization cues and creates a specific mood. the particular virtue of slow motion is that the dancers have more time to match frequencies, especially as partners. the result is that within ecd you have a better chance of achieving the right combination of, shall we say, set, setting, and dose. yours in the name of dance satori, vanessa ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 03 jun 2000 15:52:03 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 03 jun 2000 15:51:17 -0700 (pdt) from: meier-at- ssrl.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: best dances for peak experiences? to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit some dances offer an easier path to enlightenment than others. i've heard several people cite miss de jersey's memorial as a peak dance experience, for example. miss de jersey's memorial is a gorgeous tune, slow but not too slow, and the music tells you what to do; the dance requires you to synchronize with your partner as much as possible, and it flows like crazy (except for that counterintuitive circle right, where most people have to stop and think for the first few repetitions). any other favorite dances for peak experiences? vanessa ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 03 jun 2000 18:33:38 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 03 jun 2000 21:32:51 -0400 from: "emily l. ferguson" reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: slow motion highs to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >but the bond doesn't become truly mystical until the smaller set dances. this >is why i like ecd at its best more than contra at its best. (is there anyone >out there who's had a peak dance experience with squares?) yup. in the late '70s, at tony parkes' monday night dance in concord, before the onslaught of interminably crossed over contras, we often had very special experiences with tony's square calling. i remember a number of times when he would improvise the break between the 1st and 2nd cpls' lead and the 3rd and 4th cpls' lead. the best times were when he was able to move outside of his own planned improvs into using suggestions from the squares in front of him, while the dancing was going on, or just before the particular dance began. contra dancers will never understand this, because so few callers can improvise ne squares any more and because so many contra dancers want to go straight to that high without having to think, or work at it along the way. the overall effect at tony's dances was cumulative - he would warm us up with accessible things, then move us bit by bit into things that gave him more freedom to improvise as a caller, or that bordered on the not-quite-finished choreography. we were guinea pigs in the best sense - that he had done nearly all his homework and came to us to put the finishing touches on the contra dances he was inventing. the squares were a chance for him to use standard figs interspersed with the caller's real work - the improvised intros, breaks and conclusions. to me, at the risk of sounding like a broken record here, the real high comes from being able to sustain quality dancing throughout an evening of varied material so that a community of dancers occurs that evening. emily l. ferguson elf-at- cape.com 508-563-6822 new england landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html digital transformation at: http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/gallery-x/bdp/ ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 03 jun 2000 18:43:11 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 03 jun 2000 21:42:25 -0400 from: "emily l. ferguson" reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: best dances for peak experiences? to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit isaccs' limerick st. margaret's hill orleans dusty miller slof galliard picking up sticks levi tallis' but perfunctory dancing will kill anything. often my peak experiences come from sharing the joy of doing it well, a joy which glows out of the faces of the dancers. emily l. ferguson elf-at- cape.com 508-563-6822 new england landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html digital transformation at: http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/gallery-x/bdp/ ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 04 jun 2000 08:19:14 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sun, 04 jun 2000 10:08:36 +0000 from: mary stafford reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: peak dance experiences to: 'english country dance list' message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit four of my favorites for peak dance experience- hudson barn, from aberdeen, barham down & mr. isaac's maggot. very different feelings from each, but when it all goes together, and everyone is moving to the music and together, wow! my own mental comparison is that of being a cog in some cosmic machine, one's feet caught in the machine of music and movement, one's eyes meeting partner, neighbor, partner... heavenly, a true peak experience, of course, music alone can build that peak from any dance. i have wonderful memories of a pinewoods july 4th weekend years back when we had a wonderful band which included (the only name i can remember for certain) claudio buchwald. dancing in the evening felt as if we all were floating a foot off the floor. didn't matter whether it was contra or english- it was all peak. mary stafford ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 04 jun 2000 08:49:50 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sun, 04 jun 2000 08:48:52 -0700 (pdt) from: orly krasner reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: peak dance experiences to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; format=flowed content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i've had similar peaks in many of the dances already mentioned, but one other stands out in memory. i think the title was "lover's farewell" (complicated three-couple set with big loopy heys of all sorts? helene cornelius called it at pinewoods summer before last.) after several days of hard work to get it all right, everything suddenly all came together in this particular set. at the end of the dance we all just looked at each other with glazed expressions that wordlessly asked, "was it as good for you as it was for me?" talk about intense connections. . . . --orly ________________________________________________________________________ get your private, free e-mail from msn hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 04 jun 2000 11:20:13 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sun, 04 jun 2000 14:24:36 -0400 from: benjamin stein reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: list to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: sign off quit ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 04 jun 2000 16:17:49 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sun, 04 jun 2000 19:17:04 -0400 from: "albert a. blank" reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: joint english american parties to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: alan winston - ssrl central computing wrote (in part): > there aren't that many joy-of-motion ec dances, and most of those are unequal: > hambleton's round o, jack's health, female saylor, dublin bay, trip to > kilbourne, maybe prince william - how many others? this will be interesting to compile. add: from aberdeen and barham down. albert ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 04 jun 2000 17:14:30 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sun, 04 jun 2000 20:13:34 -0400 (edt) from: samifidler-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: ecd digest v1 #747 to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit in a message dated 6/4/00 10:00:03 am, system-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu writes: is why i like ecd at its best more than contra at its best. (is there anyone >out there who's had a peak dance experience with squares?) >> there was an experienced squares workshop at the dance flurry last winter- called by ron buchanan. it was scheduled against a contra medley in the main hall, so just about everyone who attended did so by deliberate choice , loved to dance squares, and did so pretty well. the dances were complex and fun and the music fast paced ( the band included personnel from the horeseflies, plus larry unger and jeremiah mclaine) the walk throughs were brief or not at all - i remember thinking halfway through a no walkthrough of heymania- god, take me now, it just doesn't get any better than this and i want to die happy:>) sami ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 04 jun 2000 20:28:47 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 01 jun 2000 09:19:47 -0700 from: howard carlberg subject: re: curly-headed plowboy to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: (two months ago - sorry i'm just catching up) lou vosteen wrote: > > in peter barnes book of ecd is a tune called the "curley-headed plowboy." the ecd references have been given already. i just wanted to mention that apple tree morris does a morris dance (bampton-stick) called the "curley-headed plowboy" to the same tune. i have had the tune in my head for the last week or more and have started playing it, but i wasn't sure if i had the ending right. i never thought of looking in "barnes" for it until i saw your question. so i looked it up. i had it pretty close. cheers howard ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 04 jun 2000 20:28:55 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 01 jun 2000 10:23:54 -0700 from: howard carlberg subject: sellenger's round [was re:world dance day message (fwd)] to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: on may 5 2000, marian phillips wrote: > > christine robb forwards a message that says in part: > > >>(in old days this night was called the walpurgis night, and some believed > the witches were flying to a certain > mountain to dance with the devil himself.) > well, i was up before dawn on may 1 and staggered off to inspiration point > in berkeley to watch a bunch of morris dancers, does that count? > > obligatory ecd ref: they finished off the performance by having everyone, > morris dancers and spectators alike, join in dancing "sellenger's round," i was on the other side of the bay at the palo alto baylands and we finished off with seeelinger's round also. > which is a dance i'm fond of but not when you try to crowd way too many > people into the circle, so i opted out. > > what is it about circle-formation dances that makes people think you can > just cram everyone in and it won't affect the dance? i see it a lot, and > it's usually a disaster, maybe because circle dances are seen as simple, > inclusive dances that the whole merry village can join into, even if half > the merry villagers have never done ecd in their lives, much less that > particular circle dance -- and the instructions/calling in these situations > are usually sketchy or non-existent. in my opinion it's a really horrid > introduction to ecd for people who might otherwise get interested. what else would you have then? it is, in practice, quicker and easier to get people who have no clue what you are talking about, to form a circle than line up in some other formation. be glad you have so many merry villagers interested in joining in. if they are out there on may morning, they must have some interest or curiosity. including them all is a good thing. i don't think they see it as such a horrid introduction to ecd. it is probably all greek to them anyhow, the point is they watched some dancing that hopefully impressed them, and now they get to do some, and maybe go home touched by the spirit of the day. perhaps you should have danced sellenger's round not for your own enjoyment, but to help and inspire the person next to you, and invite them to your next ecd. now, if these people were really all your merry villagers, and you keep introducing them to ecd like this, soon they _will_ have a clue to what is going on, and they and you can take it further from there. but it is berkeley and you may not see the same people next time, so do what you can. if you recruit just one person, the effect could be exponential. one more point. i have danced sellenger's round with nearly 300 people in the room (in berea) and it did not feel too crowded. they were all experienced dancers and everyone knew the dance. i think that makes a difference in the "feel". the whole room full of dancers moved together and nobody bumped into one another. if you are dancing outside at inspiration point, you should have enough physical space with two or three concentric circles. but if the people next to you don't know which way to go, then you can't dance and move where you want to go, and it will feel crowded to you. so i think it is more a factor of knowledge than space. not just how many people are in the circle, but how many inexperienced people are there. and back to the original question of circle formation, most of the above is true for any formation. similar situations will continue to present themselves. the best one can do is spread a liberal ammount of experience evenly through the set and hope for the best. perhaps i'll see you at the next ecd. introduce yourself and we can dance and feel a little less grumpy. cheers howard ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 05 jun 2000 07:26:26 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 05 jun 2000 08:25:42 -0600 from: rushton-at- biology.utah.edu (emma rushton) reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: slow motion highs to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >is there anyone >out there who's had a peak dance experience with squares? yes, me! i think it comes from that feeling of being on the edge, listening with all your ears to the caller, moving instantly to the call, everyone moving as one, going through a complex series of moves, and _then getting your partner back at the end_. doesn't happen like that very often! i love squares! just _don't_ understand those who hate them. emma - emma rushton, department of biology, university of utah, 257 south, 1400 east salt lake city, ut 84112-0840 (801) 585-1926 (office) (801) 585-9425 (lab) (801) 581-4668 (fax) rushton-at- biology.utah.edu ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 05 jun 2000 09:20:35 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 05 jun 2000 12:19:39 -0400 (edt) from: sallennic-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: peak dance experiences to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit for me these occur in dances which fall into two types: a) the mesmeric (and often fairly energetic) dance - a trip to kilburn and dublin bay have both been mentioned. i would add to these up with aily to its own 9/8 tune, and orleans baffled, done as a duple minor - these are both 'moto perpetuo'; dutch dollars is another. b) the sensual dance, in which the contact with partner and the partnership work is tantamount to a love affair: here i list trip to the jubilee, cynthia's waltz, well hall, hole in the wall and (possibly greatest of all) mr beveridge's maggot (pat shaw's version) - but maybe my vision is coloured by thoughts of the two partners i have had over the years with whom i have done these dances most sensually and satisfyingly! nicolas b., lanark, scotland. ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 05 jun 2000 10:01:19 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 05 jun 2000 13:03:43 -0400 from: sharon green reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: peak dance experiences to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit at 12:19 pm 6/5/00 -0400, sallennic-at- aol.com wrote: >for me these occur in dances which fall into two types: >a) the mesmeric (and often fairly energetic) dance - a trip to kilburn and >dublin bay have both been mentioned. i would add to these up with aily to its >own 9/8 tune, and orleans baffled, done as a duple minor - these are both >'moto perpetuo'; dutch dollars is another. hello, nic! where can we find dutch dollars? hugs, sharon (looking forward to more peak experiences) ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 05 jun 2000 10:05:23 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 05 jun 2000 13:04:36 -0400 from: "emily l. ferguson" reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: peak dance experiences to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit aw nicholas you don't like that full skipped figure eight at the end of beveridge, with the wondrous moment when you brake to dance across and down the outside? ;-) emily l. ferguson elf-at- cape.com 508-563-6822 new england landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html digital transformation at: http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/gallery-x/bdp/ ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 05 jun 2000 15:14:34 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 05 jun 2000 18:12:27 -0400 (edt) from: martinezpc-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: peak dance experiences to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit in a message dated 6/4/00 11:50:16 am eastern daylight time, okrasner-at- hotmail.com writes: > i hadn't given a thought to that dance in the past two years, and yet as i read orly's message, i remembered exactly with whom i danced "lover's farewell" that summer at pinewoods! it never ceases to amaze me that in the case of quite a few very special dance experiences, i remember who my partner was - even 8, 9, or 10 years later. one more addition to the growing list of "peak dance experience" favorites: quite carr-ied away. carol martinez transported from white plains, ny by lovely memories.... ================================================================================ archive-date: tue, 06 jun 2000 05:17:51 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 05 jun 2000 19:10:34 -0400 from: allison m thompson reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: peak ecd experiences to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i adore it when you join hands in a line of 4 & go forward to the presence!! it is so swell! there are no other words. allison http://www.musicsleuth.com./sqpress ________________________________________________________________ you're paying too much for the internet! juno now offers free internet access! try it today - there's no risk! for your free software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ================================================================================ archive-date: tue, 06 jun 2000 05:17:54 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 05 jun 2000 19:05:47 -0400 from: allison m thompson reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: joint english american parties to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i'd like to put in a plug for a wonderful english/contra cross-over type caller who is sue dupre and some cross-over type dances (usually in limited set (i.e., 4c) formation dances by gary roodman just see various of his publications cheers allison thompson http://www.musicsleuth.com/sqpress ________________________________________________________________ you're paying too much for the internet! juno now offers free internet access! try it today - there's no risk! for your free software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ================================================================================ archive-date: tue, 06 jun 2000 05:54:32 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: tue, 06 jun 2000 13:53:44 +0100 from: hugh stewart reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: peak dance experiences to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: sharon green wrote: > > > hello, nic! > where can we find dutch dollars? > hugs, > sharon (looking forward to more peak experiences) holland as seen... ================================================================================ archive-date: tue, 06 jun 2000 07:18:07 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: tue, 06 jun 2000 10:17:20 -0400 (edt) from: david.millstone-at- valley.net (david millstone) subject: peak dance experiences to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain content-transfer-encoding: 7bit carol martinez wrote: "it never ceases to amaze me that in the case of quite a few very special dance experiences, i remember who my partner was - even 8, 9, or 10 years later." i remember well my first real exposure-- "real" meaning when i first experienced the joy of ecd rather than sneering at it as a wimpy substitute for contra dance-- at pinewoods english & american week in 1987. i remember being guided through "well hall" with pat talbot and thinking, "ah, so that's where that little extra twirl around goes..." and floating into some higher plane of existence. and then at a dance one evening encountering "mad robin" for the first time... and speaking of carol martinez, i recently experienced fried's dance "measured obsession," which was written for carol. that certainly provided a peak dance experience-- the movement and flow are extraordinary, punctuated by wonderful pauses provided by very slow steps in the midst of all the motion. we usually think of the enjoyment of dance coming from the movement, but in this case, i found great pleasure from the cessation of movement, something i wouldn't have imagined beforehand. david millstone ================================================================================ archive-date: tue, 06 jun 2000 08:44:17 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: tue, 06 jun 2000 11:43:14 -0400 (edt) from: bsdieter-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: peak dance experiences to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit speaking of "peak experiences", just listened to the new cd, measured obsession, and in my humble opinion, the entire production qualifies! thanks to each of you, fried and mgm, for enriching my life. what a joy! beverly ================================================================================ archive-date: tue, 06 jun 2000 09:22:49 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: tue, 06 jun 2000 12:21:13 -0400 (edt) from: wolfelinda-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: ecd digest v1 #749 to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit this is to alison: have you done new york times by colin hume? a great leading-up dance. linda ================================================================================ archive-date: tue, 06 jun 2000 09:26:05 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: tue, 06 jun 2000 12:25:08 -0400 (edt) from: wolfelinda-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: ecd digest v1 #749 to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit and this is for emma: yes, i agree with you about squares. there's a high from just getting where you're supposed to and flying with the music which contra just doesn't have. when it comes to american dances, contra to me equals calithenics. or going to my gym and doing the treadmill. squares are dancing. so the thing i agree with you about is this: what is it with the people who don't like squartes. why is that? linda. ================================================================================ archive-date: tue, 06 jun 2000 09:32:05 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: tue, 06 jun 2000 12:30:30 -0400 (edt) from: wolfelinda-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: ecd digest v1 #748 to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit re joy-of-motion english dances: what about fried herman's the severn bore? pretty much constant movement, a great tune, beautiful movements, energy-entailing and elegant at once. also, to al blank specifically: you include prince william but not everyone's apparent favorite (at least based on how often we do it), namely the bishop? linda ================================================================================ archive-date: tue, 06 jun 2000 09:44:44 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: tue, 06 jun 2000 12:47:23 -0400 from: marge cramton reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: ecd digest v1 #749 to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit maybe it's because so many of the squares that get called at dances are so dumb. and then they have you hold your square so they can do another one, just as dumb. after a half an hour of waiting for your turn to be the visiting couple, you get more careful about what you sign up for. at 12:25 pm 6/6/00 -0400, you wrote: >and this is for emma: > >yes, i agree with you about squares. there's a high from just getting where >you're supposed to and flying with the music which contra just doesn't have. >when it comes to american dances, contra to me equals calithenics. or going >to my gym and doing the treadmill. squares are dancing. so the thing i >agree with you about is this: what is it with the people who don't like >squartes. why is that? >linda. ================================================================================ archive-date: tue, 06 jun 2000 09:50:56 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: tue, 06 jun 2000 12:50:03 -0400 (edt) from: sallennic-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: peak experiences to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit in a message dated 6/6/2000 3:00:19 pm, system-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu writes: >aw nicholas > >you don't like that full skipped figure eight at the end of beveridge, >with >the wondrous moment when you brake to dance across and down the outside? > >;-) > >emily l. ferguson no, i'm sorry to say i don't, as i find repetition of the b music so *desperately*, unnatural, and, in common with most people this side of the pond, i find pat's "another look"... at mr bev. intensely satisfying; to the extent that, on the very rare occasions on which i meet sharp's version, i sit and watch! nicolas. ================================================================================ archive-date: tue, 06 jun 2000 09:51:04 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: tue, 06 jun 2000 12:50:05 -0400 (edt) from: sallennic-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: ecd digest v1 #749 to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit in a message dated 6/6/2000 3:00:19 pm, system-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu writes: >hello, nic! >where can we find dutch dollars? >hugs, >sharon apart from "holland as seen ...", on "dance and danceability"! nicolas. ================================================================================ archive-date: tue, 06 jun 2000 10:42:40 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: tue, 06 jun 2000 13:41:51 -0400 (edt) from: sue wartell subject: re: sqaures/contra/english peak moments to: e-at- cas.org, ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit oddly enough i was just thinking about the question of why i don't enjoy squares very much after the last contra. i think it has partly to do with what you look for from a dance. i find that squares lack flow, and flow is something that i find very attractive. there's a lot of stop, wait, start off again, stop and wait some more. also, there is a real tendancy for things to degenerate to a mad scramble; i don't care for dances where you need a traffic cop to sort out the paths. that is at least partly a function of inexperience on the part of some of the set - but in that way contras are more forgiving, and furthermore, in a contra, you aren't "stuck" with the same beginners for the entire dance. finally, i prefer dances where the caller can stop calling, and i can concentrate on feeling the music, and as someone who likes squares pointed out, one key to having a successful square dance is to concentrate on the caller. i don't actively dislike (most) squares, and there are one or 2 i enjoy (chinese fan, which kathy anderson used to call, is fun), but i would not go very far out of my way to dance them. i've experienced real highs doing contras. there's the "runner's high" type excitement that happens at most contras, so my memories of peak experiences in that context focus more on events where things were special, rather than on particular dances. dancing at the pigtown fling several years ago, with tony parkes calling and nightingale playing was a sustained high. dancing on new year's eve, about 16 years ago in elkins, west virginia, with laurie anders on piano and kevin burke on fiddle was divine, and the contra dancing at the bloomington ale, nearly that long ago, was bliss. all of them featured a high concentration of experienced dancers, and exceptional music. to drag this back on topic after that long digression, one peak experience in ecd i've had was in dancing a demo of fandango. we had a small, attentive audience (always fun) and a set of experienced dancers, and a dance all of us like. and then, the audience gasped (quietly) the first time the set exploded into the heys - it felt wonderful to have the whole set moving together, and that feeling was reinforced by the recognition from the audience that something special was happening. some partners make nearly any dance a peak experience. the musicians also make a difference. dublin bay at berea with bare necessities and one of those very special partners was a peak experience too. more along the lines that were mentioned at the start of this discussion, i also love some of the simple, flowing dances (e.g., female saylor), because they induce something very like a trance state, and i love some of the much more energetic ones like trip to paris, which is a romp, and makes me laugh. gosh, that's a lot of words - i think i could have stopped after saying i like dances with clear patterns and flow, and what makes them extra special are good music and good dancers. sue columbus, oh from linda: > > yes, i agree with you about squares. there's a high from just getting where > you're supposed to and flying with the music which contra just doesn't have. > when it comes to american dances, contra to me equals calithenics. or going > to my gym and doing the treadmill. squares are dancing. so the thing i > agree with you about is this: what is it with the people who don't like > squartes. why is that? > linda. ================================================================================ archive-date: tue, 06 jun 2000 11:26:13 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: tue, 06 jun 2000 14:25:25 -0400 from: "emily l. ferguson" reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: squares "dumb"? to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i suppose it's not a good idea to start on why squares seem to be "dumb". but i can tell you this much, if your squares are "dumb" you can help your local callers get better and then their squares will get better too. aside from that approach, one of the reasons that squares appear to be "dumb" to contra dancers is just what we've been talking about lately - that endomorphin high of continuous movement. and, you must also notice that many of the dances we've been talking about for a peak experience have this standing around problem. it's just not for the 1s. i believe the courtesy of standing and waiting (or better yet assisting), which david millstone discovered despite himself at pinewoods so long ago, is at this point the thing which makes english dancing most unattractive to the contra crowd. emily l. ferguson elf-at- cape.com 508-563-6822 new england landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html digital transformation at: http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/gallery-x/bdp/ ================================================================================ archive-date: wed, 07 jun 2000 03:56:48 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: wed, 07 jun 2000 06:59:38 -0400 from: sharon green reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: ecd in smithtown, long island [ny] on june 18 to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit for as many as will: an english country dance party and workshop in long island sunday june 18, 2000 brush barn, smithtown li workshop, 2:30 to 5 pm father's day potluck, 5 to 7 pm dance party, 7 to 10 pm caller, sharon green band, the flying romanos please come out if you can as we attempt to re-introduce english country dancing to the long island dance community. i believe that much of the best teaching occurs on the floor, as experienced dancers lead newcomers through the figures of a dance, and i hope i'll have some of you experienced folk along on june 18th to welcome these new english dancers into our growing family. for directions to the barn in smithtown: http://www.litma.org/brushbrn.htm wish me luck! much love, sharon ================================================================================ archive-date: wed, 07 jun 2000 08:52:03 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: tue, 06 jun 2000 23:22:09 +0200 from: han daamen reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: list to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit sign off quit ================================================================================ archive-date: wed, 07 jun 2000 13:52:55 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: wed, 07 jun 2000 16:33:57 -0400 from: catdancer-at- juno.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: peak ecd experiences to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >is there anyone >out there who's had a peak dance experience with squares? i have too! it was several years ago at augusta heritage center when (again) ron buchanan was calling a challenging squares workshop. we were traveling in so many different directions, it was hard to tell which way was up, but we had loads of fun. most of my dance highs are with the slower english tunes, though. two favorites are: elizabeth and the old mill. helen tuzio new york ================================================================================ archive-date: wed, 07 jun 2000 14:39:51 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: wed, 07 jun 2000 16:32:37 +0000 from: mary stafford reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: english/american dances to: 'english country dance list' message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i'd like to re-direct the attention of the list to the core question harvey cohen was asking when he started this topic, as i am also on the same committee here in the boston area. the topic has drifted to peak experiences, and though i'm carefully saving those which relate to peak contra experiences as well as peak experiences in english for those who previously scorned it, i'd like to see more serious discussion on how we can encourage an amiable interaction between the two groups. it would be naive to assume that one could convert all contra dancers to being avid english dancers, or vice versa. but a number of us on the two dance committees are really concerned with the degree of acrimony that seems to have sprung up between the groups, and would like to build a common ground. any ideas you out there may have for successfully doing this, any cautionary statements on how not to do it, would be most welcome. more input, please! mary stafford allston, ma ================================================================================ archive-date: wed, 07 jun 2000 22:21:24 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 08 jun 2000 01:20:45 -0700 from: diane schmit reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: peak ecd experiences - squares to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit at 04:33 pm 6/7/00 -0400, you wrote: >>is there anyone >>out there who's had a peak dance experience with squares? > >i have too! it was several years ago at augusta heritage center when >(again) ron buchanan was calling a challenging squares workshop. we were >traveling in so many different directions, it was hard to tell which way >was up, but we had loads of fun. ok... i have to add in that i have, too - many, many times (maybe even every week) - when bob dalsemer was in baltimore calling regularly and i had time to go to both the american and english dances in town. bob called some great dances: some that gave that continuous motion high, some singing squares, some w. virginia squares, some challenging squares. i remember peaks from all the different types. most of this, for me, was in the early-mid 80's. more recently (last 10 years), in other settings, i can remember being disappointed (or frustrated) with some of these dances, but mostly because the dancers didn't know how to dance them (e.g. proper style for the type of square, besides understanding the calls) so that you *could* have those peak experiences, not because the dances themselves were lacking. i think bob taught us how to enjoy, appreciate, and have those peaks from dances many of us once thought were "dumb". (btw, thanks, bob!) diane ps bob was also one of the first 2 ecd callers/teachers i had, and he did a great job at that, too. > >most of my dance highs are with the slower english tunes, though. two >favorites are: elizabeth and the old mill. > >helen tuzio >new york > diane schmit dschmit-at- ix.netcom.com ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 08 jun 2000 04:42:33 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 08 jun 2000 07:37:24 -0400 from: colin hume reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: anglo-american dance to: ecd mailing list message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit the discussion about combined english and american dances gives me the perfect opportunity to announce: dance to colin hume and susan kevra with music from shane and julia day at the grange hall, southam, warwickshire, england saturday, 8th july 2000, 7.30 to 11 p.m. colin hume is well known for his "dances with a difference", and has called at many festivals and dance weeks in england, america, holland, denmark and the isle of wight. he is equally at home with playford, american squares and contras, english traditional, and even the occasional scottish dance. colin believes that a caller needs to entertain as well as teach, and his remarks about dance style are aimed at improving the dancers' enjoyment rather than just attacking them! susan kevra is much in demand at dance camps in the usa, and has also called in france and denmark. she has even called english dances at that hotbed of english dancing - the boston centre. like colin she calls, writes and dances both english and american style dances, and believes that dancing of whatever kind is there to be enjoyed. their combined dance in letchworth last year was greatly enjoyed by all who attended - if you missed it, here's another chance. shane and julia day belonged to the legendary "wild thyme", and now play with "keeping thyme" and "contradition", but they are also well-known as a duo at halsway manor and many other places. they can certainly vary their style to suit the dances, and promise an evening of great music. the dance has been arranged at short notice, so please pass the details on to anyone who might be interested. further information from wendy crouch, email wencrouch-at- aol.com, telephone 01865 848914. ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 08 jun 2000 08:38:45 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 08 jun 2000 11:34:31 -0400 from: susan murrow reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: anglo-american dance to: "internet:ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu" message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi colin! thanks for the info about the dance event, the callers, the band... i caught one other bit of information you mentioned in passing -- you seemed to be listing the isle of wight as a separate country. have they (finally) seceded?? looking forward to hearing more!! all good wishes from susan (murrow) ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 08 jun 2000 10:00:54 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 08 jun 2000 12:41:02 -0400 from: michael bergman reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: dance workshops, cambridge, soon, reminder to: vintage-dance-at- world.std.com, early-dance-cambridge-at- mit.edu, carolingia-at- world.std.com, sca-dance-at- andrew.cmu.edu, ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu, rendance-at- morgan.ucs.mun.ca message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit this seems like a good time to remind folks of a couple of upcoming early dance workshops that are fast rushing down on us. i'm going to both, and hope to see you all there! tomorrow, june 9th, at 1st church congregational (11 garden st., cambridge), charles garth and members of renaissonics. 7:30, dances of the renaissance, open to all, fully participatory, all dances taught, lots of fun, be there if you can (and live in the area). sponsored by renaissonics. $8 tuesday, june 13th, old cambridge baptist church (1151 mass ave, cambridge), julia sutton, with barbara finney & ken pierce, john tyson, & others, 8:00, christchurch bells and the work of andre lorin (1685-6), advanced workshop, lecture/demo/workshop, an unusual opportunity to see dance research at the bleeding edge (this material has not previously been presented, to the best of my knowledge, certainly not in this particular form). $10, $8 for cds/neffa/fac members (cosponsored by all three!), $5 for students and seniors. write to me if you want a more detailed description of either; since both have previously been posted i won't do so here. --mike bergman ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 08 jun 2000 17:17:56 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 05 jun 2000 03:33:01 -0700 from: howard carlberg subject: re: joint english american parties to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: harvey, yes, i think a single caller is the ticket. the dancer will see whatever he or she calls, is just the material they call, there for all to enjoy, not english or american, new or old. good luck howard ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 09 jun 2000 03:02:00 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 08 jun 2000 17:31:02 -1000 from: "yona b. & alvin keali'i chock" reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: peak experiences to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: i agree that bob dalsemar can provide some real "highs". we lived in maryland in the washington dc metro area, and bob came down to the fsgw dances (and we occasionally went up to baltimore), calling squares, contras, and ecd's, and playing his accordian at the same time -- and every now and then getting down on the floor to teach a particular pattern. those were memorable experiences which we still recall more than a decade and a half later. aloha, yona & al keali'i chock ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 09 jun 2000 08:31:05 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 09 jun 2000 11:50:42 -0400 from: allison m thompson reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: english/american dances in the same evening to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on the topic of presentation of a mixed dance... i've seen it work a couple of times with a really super caller, but i've seen it fail many times for 2 reasons that i have noticed: 1. the caller says, in a hushed tone suitable for announcing a death: "and now we're going to do an ... (reverent pause) ... english dance 2. ... and then picks a complicated dance or one that's too slow or one that's got too much inactivity for the spirits of the crowd and then spends a long time teaching it i think the best presentations are when there is no identification of "ethnicity," so to speak, and, like nike, you just do it. i agree with another commentator that it's best if it's the same caller for all dances in the evening. a couple of weeks ago, at a contra dance in columbus, i was playing for joseph pimental who called a 9/8 dance (sorry! i forget the title) and then liz's the lover's knot set to the tune of trip to kilburn & didn't make a fuss about either one & everyone seemed to love it. one was in the first half and one in the second & i don't recall any preliminary announcement about them being english. allison thompson http://www.musicsleuth.com/sqpress ________________________________________________________________ you're paying too much for the internet! juno now offers free internet access! try it today - there's no risk! for your free software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 09 jun 2000 10:09:14 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 09 jun 2000 13:08:24 -0400 (edt) from: eric arnold reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: english/american dances in the same evening to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on fri, 9 jun 2000, allison m thompson wrote: > on the topic of presentation of a mixed dance... [relevant stuff snipped out about ways to misfire when doing ecd in an otherwise "contra" context...] > i think the best presentations are when there is no identification of > "ethnicity," so to speak, and, like nike, you just do it. i agree with > another commentator that it's best if it's the same caller for all dances > in the evening. > > a couple of weeks ago, at a contra dance in columbus, i was playing for > joseph pimental who called a 9/8 dance (sorry! i forget the title) and > then liz's the lover's knot jim kitch's, i think, not liz's? set to the tune of trip to kilburn & didn't > make a fuss about either one & everyone seemed to love it. one was in > the first half and one in the second & i don't recall any preliminary > announcement about them being english. joseph has a delightful style and can pull this off beautifully. however, i have been sorry that in the afterglow of appreciation, they sometimes never are identified as english, and so no awareness develops in the dancers that there are dances that they like that are english. if the purpose of bringing the two groups together is to be achieved, i think that the existence of the two groups needs to be acknowledged, but in ways that help dancers realize that they share some common interests and goals but also help them appreciate what the differences between them add to the overall dance experience. i think it is popular for the proponents of one or the other type of dance to defend their own interests by putting down the other, and i think that should be discouraged. i believe it is the resulting attitude which leads to the idea that one shouldn't mention that the next dance will be english at a contradance, as though it were poison. i in particular want to know about the origins of the dances, and i want others to know about them, too. the separation of english country and contra dancers into two distinct "camps" that is quite common now, in contrast to times past when the two types were more commonly freely intermixed, i think is because there are some real differences between the two types of dancing and there are enough people doing each that they are able to pursue what they are most interested in by maintaining this separation. perhaps because such a separation serves their own interests in deriving pleasure from dancing, the separation itself becomes the goal, making it harder to appreciate that there is still much dancing pleasure to be derived from a combined event, and that there are other benefits to this which might increase overall pleasure from dancing. clearly the purpose of the separate events, outside of the secondary need to maintain separation, is to be able to do or experience certain things which are difficult or impossible in in the other context. whether and to what degree they might be possible in a mixed event is a question that seems relevant. perhaps there are other experiences possible in mixed events which those who separate them never enjoy, that need to be re-discovered. if there are, it would help to identify and promote them to develop enthusiasm for this kind of event. i don't see mixed events as replacing separate ones in areas where separate activity is strong enough to maintain a viable program. i see a need for those who need to be moving and who want to give their brains a rest, and i see a need for those who want to spend time learning a dance which doesn't lend itself to the "just do it" approach. each offers its own type of satisfaction, and for some one is what they want, for some the other. no need to tell people what they should like to do. there is a need to let them choose for themselves. to make a good choice, they need to know what the choices are. for that reason, i feel that having combined events is a good idea, and that information about the type of dance is also a good idea. if this information poisons the atmosphere, that is not a problem with the information itself but the atmosphere into which it is introduced, and there is reason to promote a more tolerant, open, and broadminded approach among all dancers. ideally one could have combined as well as individually focused events; in combined events one shares the pleasure of doing one's own favorite type of dance with others, trying to encourage them with your best dancing to give them pleasure similar to what you yourself get from it, and if you are successful, you may strengthen your own preferred type with new participants; this pleasure in exchange for the peak experience you sometimes get from dancing in your own context but are not likely to experience in the mixed group. in exchange for the good efforts of the other dancers who prefer something else to do what you like, you cooperate and seek to participate in the other type as well, doing your best to get into the spirit that the other type calls for. in that setting, both groups would support the combined events, and the combined event would support both groups. that's my idea of the ideal... and then there's reality... (8-( eric arnold ann arbor ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 09 jun 2000 10:41:18 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 09 jun 2000 18:42:38 +0100 from: trevor monson reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: anglo-american dance to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: and after tomorrow's workshop and dance in sheffield, colin will also be able to list that he has called in yorkshire as well as england?! (and he is another person who can successfully combine contra, squares and old & modern english in the same dance, but that is what we are used to in this country). trev. ----- original message ----- from: susan murrow to: internet:ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu sent: thursday, june 08, 2000 4:34 pm subject: anglo-american dance > hi colin! > > thanks for the info about the dance event, > the callers, the band... > > i caught one other bit of information > you mentioned in passing -- you seemed to be > listing the isle of wight as a separate country. > have they (finally) seceded?? > > looking forward to hearing more!! > > all good wishes from susan (murrow) __________________________________________________ do you yahoo!? talk to your friends online with yahoo! messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 09 jun 2000 11:04:54 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 09 jun 2000 11:04:04 -0700 (pdt) from: andrew peterson reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: english/american dances in the same evening to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --- eric arnold wrote: > if the purpose of bringing the two groups together is to be > achieved, i > think that the existence of the two groups needs to be > acknowledged, but > in ways that help dancers realize that they share some common > interests > and goals but also help them appreciate what the differences > between them > add to the overall dance experience. > and maybe the common heritage?? most contra dancers have no awareness at all of the heritage behind the dances. i'm not sure that very many of the callers do either, at least not enough to impart it to the dancers. paul mccullough tends to call more old traditional contras and unequal dances than most callers do today. the portland country dance community has tried something this year with mixed success. for several years now there has been an evening of contra and scandinavian dance once a year commonly called "scantra". this tradition was started by ted remillard when he was calling the fourth saturday dance that mary devlin runs now. the band was always salem-scio express (the moores being from salem and the whites being from scio) which played regularly for scandinavian dances in salem. sharon moore teaches that group. pcdc has been trying a monthly dance featuring contra and some other kind of dancing. (contra-irish, contra-swing, contra-international...) some dances have had good attendance and others have not. andy in portland or __________________________________________________ do you yahoo!? yahoo! photos -- now, 100 free prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 09 jun 2000 11:15:13 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 09 jun 2000 11:14:23 -0700 (pdt) from: andrew peterson reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: english/american dances in the same evening to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --- eric arnold wrote: > > i see a > need for those who need to be moving and who want to give > their brains a > rest, and i see a need for those who want to spend time > learning a dance > which doesn't lend itself to the "just do it" approach. > part of my frustration with contra dancers is that "'just do it' approach". they aren't willing to learn enough to really be any good at it. dancing is a social event, but at least english dancers have the courtesy of paying attention to the dance and not trying to carry on a conversation in the dance to the point that they seem annoyed when someone wants to interrupt their conversation long enough to actually do the dance with them. mary and i already discussed some individuals in the portland community that do that. andy __________________________________________________ do you yahoo!? yahoo! photos -- now, 100 free prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 09 jun 2000 12:03:05 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 09 jun 2000 12:02:16 -0700 (pdt) from: alan winston - ssrl central computing subject: re: english/american dances in the same evening to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit andrew peterson wrote: part of my frustration with contra dancers is that "'just do it' approach". they aren't willing to learn enough to really be any good at it. first, it might be good to say "some contra dancers"; otherwise you're suggesting that they're all like that, which isn't true. second, you have to remember that you're externally imposing standards of 'good at it' that may have little applicability to the people at the event. they're there to have fun. they have fun. that's all the 'good at it' they need. dancing is a social event, but at least english dancers have the courtesy of paying attention to the dance and not trying to carry on a conversation in the dance to the point that they seem annoyed when someone wants to interrupt their conversation long enough to actually do the dance with them. it might be good to say 'some english dancers' since i've encountered or participated in this problem myself, at least in the 'surprised that the wait out was so short' mode. and you see talking during the dance, even to the point of partial distraction, a lot at balls and camps, since people are hooking up with rarely-seen friends. dance or catch up? try to do both. actually, "dancing is a social event" is a statement that may not be altogether true for the kinds of dancing that we do, at least the way i've often seen them done. when the first lady chose the figure, and the first couple danced all the way down the set, with nobody else dancing until the first couple activated them, _then_ english country dancing was a social event. (or if 4, 6, or 8 members of the company got up and did a dance while the rest stood around and chatted, that was a social event.) now it's a dance event, and the social part is relegated to a short break or to after-dance expeditions, if any. one problem is that an event that gives lots of time and space for between-dance socializing will seem to the modern taste to really drag and be dull. i don't think you can convert an existing dance series to this style without losing the attendees; i don't think you can start such a series in vacuo and expect it to work - it needs to exist in a community. so it might be possible to get something started as a church activity, or a pta function, or some other group where a lot of people know each other already. but i wouldn't expect the standard of dance there to be very high. sorry for rambling. -- alan andy __________________________________________________ do you yahoo!? yahoo! photos -- now, 100 free prints! http://photos.yahoo.com =============================================================================== alan winston --- winston-at- ssrl.slac.stanford.edu disclaimer: i speak only for myself, not slac or ssrl phone: 650/926-3056 physical mail to: ssrl -- slac bin 69, po box 4349, stanford, ca 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 09 jun 2000 12:10:10 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 09 jun 2000 15:09:22 -0400 (edt) from: eric arnold reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: english/american dances in the same evening to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on fri, 9 jun 2000, andrew peterson wrote: [in response to part of my earlier post regarding different approaches that folks take to get their dancing pleasure] > part of my frustration with contra dancers is that "'just do it' > approach". they aren't willing to learn enough to really be any > good at it. > > dancing is a social event, but at least english dancers have the > courtesy of paying attention to the dance and not trying to > carry on a conversation in the dance to the point that they seem > annoyed when someone wants to interrupt their conversation long > enough to actually do the dance with them. mary and i already > discussed some individuals in the portland community that do > that. while these statements might go unchallenged in some ecd settings, i feel that it is blatantly unfair to apply them to contradancers in general. while i don't deny having experienced behavior of this type at contradances, i have also experienced extremely rude behavior at english country dances; in neither case would i describe that behavior as typical. i believe the etiquette at contras is different from that at ecd; each must be taken in its own context. neither says particularly much about the individuals participating. but these statements would be felt by all individuals participating in a contradance as very offensive, i believe, while they may apply accurately, if at all, only to what is probably a small fraction of the total. the net effect is that of a negative judgement about their preferred type of dancing, which isn't likely to promote a friendly attitude or cooperation. if we seek ways to make combined events more popular and succeessful, we need to avoid being judgemental about others' preferences for having fun, and simply seek to promote the behavior which will encourage and support either type of dancing. i think we do ourselves a disservice when we allow our own preferences to lead us to misuse those with whom we'd be better off cooperating than fighting. eric arnold ann arbor ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 09 jun 2000 12:27:08 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 09 jun 2000 13:26:22 -0600 from: rushton-at- biology.utah.edu (emma rushton) reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: social dancing to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit alan winston said: >one problem is that an event that gives lots of time and space for >between-dance socializing will seem to the modern taste to really drag and be >dull. i don't think you can convert an existing dance series to this style >without losing the attendees. i've been asked to call at parties for people who are completely new to this kind of dancing (usually church socials), and i've certainly noticed that they do not expect to dance two or three dances in quick succession - they all go and sit down after one dance, and i have to do the work to get people on their feet again. they all enjoy the dances, i get plenty of people for each dance, but talking to their friends is the main focus of the party. it's very hard work calling to such a crowd because they talk during the walk-throughs too, and tend to try to pick up what to do from their friends and not the caller. you can hear your last instruction propagate around the circle ("what are we supposed to do?...oh! hold hands - katy, hold hands.....you hold hands.....sshhh everyone, she's trying to teach us what to do!" etc etc.). i never try to teach more than 3 dances at these parties, it is just too tiring, and that is all they want anyway. truly social events. - emma rushton, department of biology, university of utah, 257 south, 1400 east salt lake city, ut 84112-0840 (801) 585-1926 (office) (801) 585-9425 (lab) (801) 581-4668 (fax) rushton-at- biology.utah.edu ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 09 jun 2000 12:43:45 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 09 jun 2000 15:42:55 -0400 (edt) from: sue wartell subject: re: english/american dances (long) to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit it's hard to know how to address acrimony between the english and contra dancers in an area without knowing where and how it started. if the problem is personality conflicts between prominent members of the 2 communities, that's a strictly political issue, and i don't know of any good solutions. unfortunately, what i have seen happen in some areas is that the "our way is the only way, and what those other folks do isn't really dancing" fanatics can come to dominate a group, and inculcate that attitude in newcomers, giving rise to a group that may be very welcoming to those who subscribe to their style, but very off-putting to others. (simple example - if you want to do a hands-across star at a contra and somebody grabs your hand and pushes it into a wrist-grip star, that can be anywhere from irritating to painful.) one way to approach the problem is to think about what the 2 groups expect from dancing and see where the areas of compatibility are, and where there may be no way beyond persuasion to convince the "others" that "your" way is fun, too. all comments which follow are generalizations based on my own experience, and may not reflect what happens in your area. contra and english country dancers both come expecting an evening of dancing with a variety of partners, in sets where they will also be interacting with other people during each dance. they expect some teaching (walk-thrus) for each dance, and (perhaps) a mix of dances they know and new dances. if this is true in your area, it gives you a head start in terms of expectations. contra dances, in general, at least in the modern era, are fast, high-energy, equal opportunity dances for first and second couples in longways sets, with a good deal of physical contact (swings and courtesy turns), and lots of room for improvisation and twirls. downsides to some people are roughness or wildness, a lack of precision, a lack of interest in what the rest of the set is doing, and not paying attention to the music. english dances, in general, occur in a variety of speeds and styles, in a variety of formations, with first couple frequently more active than second couple, little physical contact beyond holding hands, and more emphasis on dancing with the whole set. perceived downsides are fussiness and emphasis on styling, lack of spirit, lack of excitement, lack of physical contact. for someone whose definition of dancing is lots of spinning and close physical contact, english is not going to be satisfying. if they are willing to be open minded, they may find other appeals in english. on the other hand, for someone whose definition of dancing is stately, elegant movement in synchrony with others in the set, contras will be problematic. on both sides, there are those you will never convert. as for the "convertible", i'd guess it depends on their definition of dancing. moving in concert with others in time to the music? - they ought to be easy converts. doing historically derived dances - again, a fairly easy sell, with the right presentation. just want to have fun, but open-minded about it - show them the ways in which the other form is fun. (personally i like the historical connection from english to contra, but lots of folks don't care.) longways english dances may feel more accessible to contra dancers. include some free waltzes so that the ones who want more physical contact will get their "fix". delegate those who want to bridge the gap to dance with some of the resistors from the other group. as allison suggests, don't make a big deal about the distinctions between the forms ahead of time. joseph's dance here in columbus is not the only time that slipping english (and older contras) into the program here has been done, and been accepted. (but then, we don't have a strongly entrenched resistance to cross-over here - some resistance on the part of some folks, perhaps, but not a major issue, as there is a fair amount of overlap between the groups, particularly among the folks generally regarded as the best dancers ( = most popular partners.) eric's idea of letting folks know that the dance they just enjoyed is one of "those" dances is also good, i think, to encourage them to try some other dances of that type and start to break down the preconceptions. don't fret too much about styling (on either side), and again, enlist a core group (who are dedicated to making this work) to be on guard against militant style dictators who try to enforce their style on the rest of the set - you probably need to do this by example, or a gentle "that's ok, it works, too." in response to the decrees. (interesting anecdote - i have a friend who is a scottish country dancer (and teacher). she had been coming to ecd for a year or two, and found it pleasant, but characterized it as gentle, very low-key, low-energy, low-demand dancing. then we went to berea to a bare necessities weekend, and she came away saying that her conception of ecd had changed entirely - she would never again characterize it as gentle and slow; it took as much energy as a scottish weekend and it could be quite exciting. the moral of this story is that the music and teaching can make a huge difference in how the experience is perceived.) sue columbus oh ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 09 jun 2000 15:27:49 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 09 jun 2000 15:24:46 -0700 from: "hamilton, bruce" reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: english/american dances to: "'ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu'" cc: "me (e-mail)" message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit mary stafford wrote: > i'd like to re-direct the attention of the list to the core > question harvey cohen was asking when he started this topic... > i'd like to see more serious discussion on how we can encourage > an amiable interaction between the two groups. > ... a number > of us on the two dance committees are really concerned with > the degree of acrimony that seems to have sprung up between the > groups, and would like to build a common ground. this is a great question. i certainly don't have an answer, but i know some principles that may be useful in looking for one. assume "in my opinion" in front of each statement, and that any statement about people means "most people, most of the time." * a strategy that asks people to behave contrary to their long-term self-interest is doomed. * a strategy that asks people to behave contrary to their short-term self-interest can succeed, but it needs care. * much of the acrimony comes from our tendency to generalize. "i did an x dance once and it felt y to me" ==> "all x dances are y." this generalization feeds another common one: "i don't understand your taste in dances" ==> "i don't understand you" ==> "i fear you" ==> various forms of irrational behavior. * generalizations have a harmful effect besides false conclusions: as soon as we label something, we stop paying attention to its details. "oh, she's a democrat..." and now i think i know all sorts of things about her. i may be wrong or i may be right, but in either case i'm now less likely to ask, or listen, or give her the attention that i would have previously. * when people get a chance to explore freely -- without fear or judgment -- they find they have more similarities than differences. the fear goes down and the interactions get more amiable. * they also discover that their differences are real. people who like anchovies, for example, actually like anchovies: they don't just fake it to gross me out. this takes longer to accept, but in can be a source of respect. * you don't cure an aversion to something by exposing people to it -- that often backfires. you think that if i would just taste a *good* anchovy, i'd begin liking them. you're more likely to strengthen my dislike. * people don't automatically know how to appreciate a new art form. we commonly pick something similar that we do know, and judge the new form by the familiar one's standards. hence my frequent caution to ecd callers not to introduce contra dancers to ecd by picking contra-like english dances. a likely result is "yes, this is almost as much fun as contra dancing." * the more you love something the harder it can be to say what you love about it. if you find yourself saying, "see?" you know what i mean. where does this lead? i dunno, but a few things suggest themselves: * giving people information and/or letting them explore is more likely to succeed than asking them to do something. * getting people to stop forming harmful generalizations about each other is very powerful, but also very difficult. either we don't realize that we make those generalizations or we don't realize the harm. even if we do, training oneself to stop is hard work. i have used materials by marshall rosenberg in some of my callers' workshops, but i didn't in my most recent one - i'm still figuring out what sort of direct approach is feasible (i guess this supports my previous note, about asking people to do anything). * what about indirect approaches? a neutral setting (neither your regular dance nor mine, even better, a non-dance setting) can encourage talk about topics other than the types of dance we do. having two groups meet at a common place for food/drink after their respective dances is an example. i once saw a great piece of advice to mediators: "look for chances to behave differently from the way people expect." the translation of this for organizers might be to look for ways to let dancers be themselves and unlike their stereotypes. the michigan folks once put on a workshop for callers, musicians and organizers, where most of the sessions were not on calling, music or organizing, but rather on topics common to two or three of those. (and every session, even the 1-topic ones, had attendees from all three roles, thus breaking a stereotype i didn't know i had formed :-) * if you trick people into trying a different type of dance, the trick may backfire. people's tastes genuinely differ, and dance forms are genuinely different. you may just reinforce an animosity. * if you pick a dance setting to encourage amiable interaction, help people understand how to appreciate the unfamiliar form. have a good band, caller and hall *for that form* (for example, many english dances lose their point in a crowded space, whereas part of the high in contra dances comes from many people moving at once). the caller should be explicit about how to appreciate the dance -- what to look/listen/feel for. the band can do the same thing; they may let the caller speak for them, or they can speak themselves. playing well and passionately is good, but not enough. it will go over the heads of listeners who haven't been prepped -- the best reggae is boring if you're listening for how it resembles scarlatti. * the same applies to the overall event. events differ in the experience level of the dancers, their social expectations (talk, dance, exercise, date, explore, ...), in the kind of skill required (e.g. memorize vs. respond quickly to calls), and in the level of attention and responsibility they assume (a rewarding dance with a long teaching time will suit one group but not another), etc. we often don't state these things in our publicity, at the door, from the microphone, etc. thus we frustrate people arriving with a different expectation, who might enjoy the evening if they knew what they'd be getting. if your mouth is set for tuna, chocolate can be disappointing. these are just some ideas. i'm sure there are other and better principles, and other and better strategies making use of those principles. as mary suggested, this is just to help get the thinking going. -bruce --------------------------------------------------------------------------- bruce hamilton agilent technologies ms 24m-a phone 650-857-2818 po box 10350 fax 650-852-8092 palo alto, ca 94303-0867 bruce_hamilton-at- agilent.com > after july 4, phone prefix will be 485 < ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 10 jun 2000 00:24:40 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 10 jun 2000 02:20:23 -0500 from: paul stamler subject: re: english/american dances in the same evening to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: excuse me; i've stayed out of this conversation so far, but i feel the need to step in and say, "bull" to that assertion. i've been doing contra for 25 years now, seeing it evolve from its new england roots to the contemporary "zesty contras" scene, and i've been playing for and occasionally dancing english for 10 years. and your generalization is not only insulting, it's just plain wrong. the majority of the folks i see at contra, like the folks at english, *are* willing to learn enough to "really be any good at it". it's more accessible, so the learning curve isn't necessarily as steep as it is at english, but i'd say the folks i dance with not only like to dance, they like to dance well. is there a subset of folks who talk through the walkthroughs and don't know where they're supposed to be? sure. just like there is at english. sometimes it's the same people. i'd suggest, in this discussion, rethinking the idea of who "they" and "we" are. i think "we" are all dancers, contra, english, scandinavian, whatever blows your skirt up. peace. paul ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 10 jun 2000 09:39:45 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 10 jun 2000 11:34:22 +0000 from: mary stafford reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: contra vs. english to: 'english country dance list' message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit my heartfelt thanks to those who have responded so far to harvey's and my questions on planning a series of english/american dances in the boston area, especially to bruce hamilton and eric arnold for their long and thoughtful notes. please- more! i hear tell, for instance, that in new york, english is a larger and stronger group than contra. in boston, the reverse is true. how does new york address the issue? i would like to suggest, respectfully, that we put a lid on the "what i don't like about contra dancers" posts. this is precisely what we are looking to discourage in our dance community. what we want is to create a group somewhere in the middle, a common ground group who enjoy both styles and have a venue for doing so. we also would like to allow the die-hards on either side to enjoy their styles without having to throw stones at each other. eric arnold made a good point in noting that the division grows in a community where each of the two styles have sufficient crowds to support the individual dances for each style. certainly this is the case here. what our committee has as its challenge is to build a bridge between those communities without damaging either. what are the benefits? in my mind, a restoration of the fellowship of the dance which i feel is a huge component of my pleasure in it, and better evening dances at places like pinewoods where the two styles are included and at present often emphasize the schism between the groups, with one group or the other sitting out the "other" dances. mary stafford ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 10 jun 2000 10:00:44 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 10 jun 2000 13:00:14 -0400 from: patricia ruggiero reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: ecd in oxford area to: english dance message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit information, please, for a young friend who will be studying at oxford (england) for six weeks beginning in early july. any ecd there? contact person? web sites? thanks from both of us, pat ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 10 jun 2000 11:14:28 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 10 jun 2000 13:13:39 -0500 (cdt) from: j-sivier-at- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: contra vs. english to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit mary stafford writes: > > my heartfelt thanks to those who have responded so far to harvey's and > my questions on planning a series of english/american dances in the > boston area, especially to bruce hamilton and eric arnold for their > long and thoughtful notes. please- more! it has been interesting to read the many thoughts on this issue. i don't have any great insights, other than to realise that tastes differ and not everyone will like everything, so all you can do is expose people to different dance types and some will enjoy it and pursue it and some won't. i've had some small experience with doing mixed dance programs and did an ecd workshop at a contra dance weekend a few years ago that was very well received. a couple of years ago our local contra dance, ecd and folk dance groups got together and put on a dance sampler evening. our ecd band (the flatland consort) also plays contra dance music and they worked up tunes to several international folk dances. i don't know if it resulted in massive numbers of dancers crossing over to the other dance types, but it was a successfull evening in that we had a good crowd who came from all 3 groups and were thus exposed to the dances and music of the others. it helped that many of the organisers of these groups were people who danced in more than one of the groups. i think one thing to keep in mind is to concentrate on the strengths of the different dance types. it seems to me that one of the great strengths of ecd is the music. contra has a strength in it's connectivity. i like to tell contra dancers that ecd is similar enough to be familiar, but different enough to be interesting. perhaps a useful exercise would be to make a list of the strengths of the different dance types so they could be emphasised at a mixed program. a list of weaknesses (or special needs) might be useful as well, so that they could be taken into account. of course, different people might have different ideas on what is a strength or a weakness. for example some people would view the independence in ecd, you are more responsible for remembering what comes next and getting yourself to where you need to be than in contra, where you are almost always in contact with someone who can pull you along if you forget what comes next, as an enjoyable challenge and others would see it as a detriment. jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | jonathan sivier |q: how many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-at- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | flight simulation lab |a: it depends on what dance you call. | | beckman institute | | | 405 n. mathews | swmdg - single white male | | urbana, il 61801 | dance gypsy | | work: 217/244-1923 | | | home: 217/359-8225 | have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | home page url: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 10 jun 2000 14:41:31 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 10 jun 2000 17:38:42 -0400 from: "roger w. broseus" reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: the night the bat flew in to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="boundary_(id_ze+y1i6ebvch0cgsufwcgg)" --boundary_(id_ze+y1i6ebvch0cgsufwcgg) content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit june 7 caller: may friday musicians: liz donaldson, becky ross, hope stanton auretti's dutch skipper the bonnie cuckoo ore boggy ms. pomeroy's pavanne speed the plough trip to tunbridge christ church bells dartington freeford gardens comical fellow -- -- and a bat flies in and around the dancers, who continue to dance, dodging as it swoops low around them. the dancers pause, waiting for the uninvited guest to leave. after sitting it out for awhile, all decided to resume dancing. in the fields of frost & snow - - -- norm b. captures bat, ever so gently, and moves it outside. caller, musicians, and dancers take it all in stride, maintaining their cool through out the evening. trip to richmond, or the lass of richmond hill alchurch ---------- vacationers: come to exciting english country dances at the glen echo town hall in the suburbs of washington, dc. check it out at www.just.net/roger/events.html --boundary_(id_ze+y1i6ebvch0cgsufwcgg) content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit june 7 caller: may friday musicians: liz donaldson, becky ross, hope stanton auretti's dutch skipper the bonnie cuckoo ore boggy ms. pomeroy's pavanne speed the plough trip to tunbridge christ church bells dartington freeford gardens comical fellow -- -- and a bat flies in and around the dancers, who continue to dance, dodging as it swoops low around them. the dancers pause, waiting for the uninvited guest to leave. after sitting it out for awhile, all decided to resume dancing. in the fields of frost & snow - - -- norm b. captures bat, ever so gently, and moves it outside. caller, musicians, and dancers take it all in stride, maintaining their cool through out the evening. trip to richmond, or the lass of richmond hill alchurch vacationers: come to exciting english country dances at the glen echo town hall in the suburbs of washington, dc. check it out at www.just.net/roger/events.html --boundary_(id_ze+y1i6ebvch0cgsufwcgg)-- ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 10 jun 2000 18:52:08 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 10 jun 2000 22:50:57 -0300 from: john wood subject: recorded music to sheet music to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi folk: permit me to ask if any one knows of an available shareware programme which will print out a musical score from a recorded source. i have been unsuccessful in my own searches. respectfully, john ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 11 jun 2000 02:04:48 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sun, 11 jun 2000 04:00:30 -0500 from: paul stamler subject: re: recorded music to sheet music to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: no -- in fact, there is not, to my knowledge, any software of any sort that will do that. the amount of computer power required would be enormous -- i suspect it'd take one of the larger crays to do it, and even so it'd be riddled with errors and misinterpretations (was that the oboe or the accordion that played that note?). what humans can do easily is sometimes extremely hard for machines to match. peace. paul ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 11 jun 2000 05:48:22 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sun, 11 jun 2000 09:47:11 -0300 from: john wood subject: re: recorded music to sheet music to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: thank you for your reply, paul. it is much appreciated. regards, john > no -- in fact, there is not, to my knowledge, any software of any sort that > will do that. the amount of computer power required would be enormous -- i > suspect it'd take one of the larger crays to do it, and even so it'd be > riddled with errors and misinterpretations (was that the oboe or the > accordion that played that note?). what humans can do easily is sometimes > extremely hard for machines to match. ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 11 jun 2000 07:45:21 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sun, 11 jun 2000 15:47:03 +0100 from: howard-at- hgmitchell.fsnet.co.uk reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: recorded music to sheet music to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit john, you might like to take a look at: http://www.akoff.com/ and http://www.audioworks.com/index.html i've tried sound2midi in an earlier version and found it useable with single note sources. i've only recently tried akoff and it seems to be ok if set up correctly. regards howard mitchell derby, uk john wood wrote: > subject: recorded music to sheet music > hi folk: > > permit me to ask if any one knows of an available shareware programme > which will print out a musical score from a recorded source. > > i have been unsuccessful in my own searches. > > respectfully, john ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 11 jun 2000 07:50:17 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sun, 11 jun 2000 15:54:49 +0100 from: francis2 reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: ecd in oxford area to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: ----- original message ----- from: patricia ruggiero to: english dance sent: saturday, june 10, 2000 6:00 pm subject: ecd in oxford area > information, please, for a young friend who will be studying at oxford > (england) for six weeks beginning in early july. any ecd there? contact > person? web sites? > > thanks from both of us, > > pat > ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 11 jun 2000 07:56:37 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sun, 11 jun 2000 07:55:49 -0700 (pdt) from: lyrl ahern reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: english/american dances to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit bruce-- > if your mouth is set for tuna, chocolate can be > disappointing. impossible. --lyrl __________________________________________________ do you yahoo!? yahoo! photos -- now, 100 free prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 11 jun 2000 08:26:36 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sun, 11 jun 2000 16:31:28 +0100 from: francis2 reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="boundary_(id_8hdns272a8qkqcibhyu8wa)" this is a multi-part message in mime format. --boundary_(id_8hdns272a8qkqcibhyu8wa) content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit review --boundary_(id_8hdns272a8qkqcibhyu8wa) content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit review --boundary_(id_8hdns272a8qkqcibhyu8wa)-- ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 11 jun 2000 12:14:10 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sun, 11 jun 2000 15:11:17 -0400 from: "hanny d. budnick" reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: ecd and contra to: blind.copy.receiver-at- compuserve.com message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi mary - this is what came up for me: i wonder what everyone's original setting for exposure to either ecd or contra was? when i learned my first ecd, it had funny german titles, and i thought the dances (mostly playford) were in fact german. it took several trips to the uk to find out otherwise. in england i also learned that what i had gotten accustomed to call 'folk dancing' in the us, in the uk meant english folk dancing, i. e. traditional and historical english dances. in the us i encountered those playford dances for which there existed 78 rpm recordings in the international folk dance realm, later supplemented by the 45s from england. and it was a core of lovers of ecd within the ifd scene that helped me found the germantown country dancers. we started with a rather high level of dancing because of a generally known repertoire and eventually had live music to extend our limits. ralph page spent much time in the ifd scene (maine folk dance camp, workshops in many camps and for many groups), where he presented contras within the context of all the other recreational folk dances - enriching everyone's breadth of dance experiences. specialty groups for only ecd or only contra developed much later. now it is possible to start one or the other without any exposure to any of the other genres. because of that the international groups use fewer of those dances. an interesting development is that now the occasional hambo, polka and the final waltz are creeping into otherwise 'pure' ecd and/or contra programs... ralph occasionally called a dance "actives to the center and back, actives dosido; neighbors meet and fall back, neighbors dosido..."as a contra, and then - upon revealing that it was really childgrove - called it again as an english dance. not all english dances are of the slow and gentle kind - but among most ecd groups those are the beloved ones. traditional dances do not enjoy the same acceptance, being more boisterous and energetic. and i believe that it is the traditional dances of england which would be the appealing ones for contra dancers (and perhaps an eye opener for the majority of ecd aficionados as well). the mixers, three couple sets of the community dance manuals, the mixers and simple english squares and - yes, the rants! there are certainly enough accessible dances in either genre to make for an enjoyable, successful program. it's the preconceived notions by potential comers that need to be dispersed - so it will help if a leader experienced and respected in both genres will help with at the start. _-at- _ {)/' /\ /\_._, /< hanny budnick ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 11 jun 2000 12:14:37 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sun, 11 jun 2000 16:13:26 -0300 from: john wood subject: re: recorded music to sheet music [2] to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined content-transfer-encoding: 8bit references: thank you� howard for your reply. will try both sources. regards, john howard-at- hgmitchell.fsnet.co.uk wrote: > i've tried sound2midi in an earlier version and found it useable with > single note sources. > i've only recently tried akoff and it seems to be ok if set up > correctly. ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 11 jun 2000 12:37:03 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sun, 11 jun 2000 12:36:06 -0700 from: bob archer subject: re: recorded music to sheet music to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: content-transfer-encoding: 7bit john wood wrote: > permit me to ask if any one knows of an available shareware programme > which will print out a musical score from a recorded source. > > i have been unsuccessful in my own searches. this question came up on the abc users list recently ( a good place to hang out if you're interested in computer music notation) and i was surprised by the answers. it turns out that there are several packages which will assist in converting sound to scores, although you will probably have to run through .wav files and midi files first. i've not used any of these so i can't vouch for how effective they are, and i doubt that any of them will do the perfect "play a track from a cd and get the full and accurate score" trick, but they might do enough to be of some use. http://www.intelliscore.net http://www.akoff.com http://www.seventhstring.demon.co.uk/ http://www.myriad-online.com/ bob ---------------------------------------------------------- -- bob archer bob-at- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 11 jun 2000 17:57:54 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sun, 11 jun 2000 20:59:08 -0400 from: john patcai reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: contra vs. english to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i have been away for a few days, and am surprised that there has been one point that i have not seen discussed in this thread. there is a distinct difference for me in the postures and dance gaits used in contra and ecd. there are many ways of describing these differences, which i am certain that we have all been taught at one time or another. i believe that the average distance from the top of my head to the floor would be about three inches less in contra than in ecd. i would feel just as awkward dancing dancing ecd in a contra style as i would be in dancing a sherbourne morris dance with a longborough style. if a caller neglects to tell us whether a dance is ecd or contra, i am left trying to figure out from the dance figures themselves which style i am using, unless the caller tells us something on the topic. i must confess to having been influenced over the years on the matter of ecd style by the late peter redgate, who had some rather pointed, but wonderful, opinions on the subject. so, i see two problems with contra dancers not valuing ecd and vice versa. first would be a belief (conscious or not) that the other group is doing it in a "wrong" style, even though the figures may be correct. second would be an antipathy to that style, whether from ignorance, experience, or preconceptions from one's social group / friends. however, the answer as to how to dissolve that antipathy still eludes me. regards, john patcai ================================================================================ archive-date: sun, 11 jun 2000 19:34:11 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sun, 11 jun 2000 22:33:15 -0400 (edt) from: cf1125-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: english/american dances to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit in a message dated 6/9/00 10:29:22 pm, bruce_hamilton-at- agilent.com writes: > while reading bruce's highly insightful commentary on this subject, i almost accepted the above metaphor, then i thought about my own case. although i share bruce's feeling about anchovies (one little anchovy can ruin an entire pizza), in recalling my initial aversion to ecd i recall that i was definitely "converted" by exposure to really good ecd during very my first week at pinewoods in 1985. suddenly what seemed to be a prissy, boring, slow dance form was revealed to be the joy that i have found it to be ever since. while there may be no good anchovies for many of us, i believe that there are definitely some contra dancers out there who would become ecd fanatics, if only they had a chance to do *good* ecd. it is probably worth the effort to seek these folks out and get them to try it. carl friedman ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 12 jun 2000 02:15:20 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 12 jun 2000 09:59:07 +0100 from: paul sartin subject: re: ecd in oxford area to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: patricia ruggiero wrote: > information, please, for a young friend who will be studying at oxford > (england) for six weeks beginning in early july. any ecd there? contact > person? web sites? > > thanks from both of us, > > pat try ian roberts at ian-at- parody.demon.co.uk he should know. paul. _________________________ paul sartin ma (oxon) lrsm may cottage, wherwell, hampshire, sp11 7js tel/fax: +44 (0) 1264 860791 mobile: +44 (0) 411 485798 ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 12 jun 2000 07:06:23 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 12 jun 2000 10:05:03 -0400 from: jhmturner reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: combining contras with english to: ecd list message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit the ecd repertoire, particularly as danced in the uk, includes a whole host of modern (and relatively modern) compositions that are less formal than playford style dances, and more akin to contras. many are equal opportunity dances and some have close contact swings. e.g pat shaw's 'morecambe bay' (both neighbour and partner swings) or 'the dancing dutch', may be useful starting points. ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 12 jun 2000 09:01:39 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 12 jun 2000 17:05:16 +0100 from: francis2 reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: english v american to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="boundary_(id_25tqr1ow+sbzmyv+waqlga)" this is a multi-part message in mime format. --boundary_(id_25tqr1ow+sbzmyv+waqlga) content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable regretfully, the american dance scene is not alone in having to = reconcile the dichotomy between "english" and contra or american = dancing. here in england to some dancers, and in some dance clubs = 'playford' is a dirty word, and any contact with it is to be avoided at = all costs. equally, again,to some,' american' or contra, or square = dances are an anathema, and at general dances are a signal to head for = the bar. neverethe less we do have some callers who are equally at home = in both genres. for other callers their speciality is well known, and = dancers will know exactly what style of programme to expect. you take = your choice, but with a few notable exceptions, the clientile at any = dance will be about the same. occasionally a dance will cross the = divide. with a change of name, and of some of the language, but the = dance will remain essentially the same, viz, for the statesman read = square lines special, or childgrove as a contra, so is it the dance = pattern that matters or the music, or the language the instructions are = written in? i reckon i could call a whole evening of 18th cent. dances = to contra dancers, and they would never know the difference regards to all readers francis.. --boundary_(id_25tqr1ow+sbzmyv+waqlga) content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit regretfully, the american dance scene is not alone in having to reconcile the dichotomy between "english" and contra or american dancing. here in england to some dancers, and in some dance clubs 'playford' is a dirty word, and any contact with it is to be avoided at all costs. equally, again,to some,' american' or contra, or square dances are an anathema, and at general dances are a signal to head for the bar. neverethe less we do have some callers who are equally at home in both genres. for other callers their speciality is well known, and dancers will know exactly what style of programme to expect. you take your choice, but with a few notable exceptions, the clientile at any dance will be about the same. occasionally a dance will cross the divide. with a change of name, and of some of the language, but the dance will remain essentially the same, viz, for the statesman read square lines special, or childgrove as a contra, so is it the dance pattern that matters or the music, or the language the instructions are written in? i reckon i could call a whole evening of 18th cent. dances to contra dancers, and they would never know the difference regards to all readers francis.. --boundary_(id_25tqr1ow+sbzmyv+waqlga)-- ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 12 jun 2000 10:42:19 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 12 jun 2000 13:41:47 -0400 from: patricia ruggiero reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: ecd in oxford area to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit thanks, paul, and to all who have been responding privately. pat -----original message----- from: owner-ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu [mailto:owner-ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu]on behalf of paul sartin sent: monday, june 12, 2000 4:59 am to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: ecd in oxford area patricia ruggiero wrote: > information, please, for a young friend who will be studying at oxford > (england) for six weeks beginning in early july. any ecd there? contact > person? web sites? > > thanks from both of us, > > pat try ian roberts at ian-at- parody.demon.co.uk he should know. paul. _________________________ paul sartin ma (oxon) lrsm may cottage, wherwell, hampshire, sp11 7js tel/fax: +44 (0) 1264 860791 mobile: +44 (0) 411 485798 ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 12 jun 2000 12:36:12 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 12 jun 2000 15:35:05 -0400 (edt) from: cf1125-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: combining contras with english to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit in a message dated 6/12/0 2:07:02 pm, you wrote: here i would agree with bruce hamilton, or perhaps it was someone else, who pointed out that this is more likely to make contra dancers think that ecd is just like contra, but not as much fun. (which is not to suggest that these are not wonderful dances.) carl friedman ================================================================================ archive-date: tue, 13 jun 2000 22:37:27 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: wed, 14 jun 2000 00:36:37 -0500 from: roger diggle reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: english/american dances to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit well, maybe impossible with chocolate, but i believe there is some wisdom here nonetheless... i once ordered cranberry juice in a local restaurant. without looking at the delivered goods, i took a big swig and thought it tasted so terrible i almost spit it back into the cup. then i realized that it was cider -- pretty good cider at that. i was able to drink it with relish after that. or was it mustard? roger lyrl ahern wrote: >bruce-- > >> if your mouth is set for tuna, chocolate can be >> disappointing. > >impossible. > >--lyrl ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 15 jun 2000 08:58:33 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 15 jun 2000 10:47:08 -0400 from: gaff-at- neu.edu (terence gaffney) reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: diamond jubilee celebration to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit dear friends, next wednesday, june 21 is the first day of summer, and our last wednesday dance of the season in boston. this has always been a party dance, and this year we have something special to celebrate. this june, helene cornelius will be 75 years old, and we're going to celebrate her career as a dance leader next wednesday. helene began to lead the wednesday series in 1963. during this 37 year period she has introduced many new and wonderful dances into the boston repertoire, leading more than 1400 evenings. her elegant, classic style has influenced thousands of our dancers. ( it's interesting to note that helene has been calling for us just about half her life this year.) if you're within driving distance of boston, please join us in celebrating helene's diamond jubilee. flowers and food are always welcome, but she 's requested that the only gift you bring is that of your presence. the dance will be at the park avenue congregational church in arlington, mass; dance starts at 7:30, and directions to the church can be found at http://www.cds-boston.org/pacc_dirs.html. best regards, terry ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 15 jun 2000 09:39:42 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 15 jun 2000 12:38:51 -0400 (edt) from: eric arnold reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: diamond jubilee celebration to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on thu, 15 jun 2000, terence gaffney wrote: > dear friends, . . . this june, > helene cornelius will be 75 years old, and we're going to celebrate her > career as a dance leader next wednesday. [snip] > if you're within driving distance of boston, please join us in celebrating > helene's diamond jubilee. flowers and food are always welcome, but she 's > requested that the only gift you bring is that of your presence. the dance > will be at the park avenue congregational church in arlington, mass; dance > starts at 7:30, and directions to the church can be found at > http://www.cds-boston.org/pacc_dirs.html. please dance a lot with ghosts! i, and i expect many others, will be there in spirit if not in flesh! eric arnold ann arbor ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 15 jun 2000 11:17:01 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 15 jun 2000 13:11:07 +0000 from: mary stafford reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: helene's 75th to: 'english country dance list' message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit eric's note in response to terry's posting about the diamond jubilee party made me think- if those of you who can't be there but would like to send greetings to helene wanted to post them to the list, we could print them out and put them up on the board behind the refreshment table. like the party, they wouldn't be a surprise, as i know helene reads this list, but they would add to the pleasure of the party for her and for all of us. what a treasure helene is! i have now been dancing in boston (and other places when possible!) for close to 30 years, all of it under her tutelage. we are blessed to have the richest repertoire i know of, perhaps the richest in the world, because of her scholarship and love of english dance. mary stafford ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 15 jun 2000 18:25:02 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 15 jun 2000 20:19:40 +0000 from: mary stafford reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: helene's 75th greetings, continued to: 'english country dance list' message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit if you send your greetings for helene cornelius, honoring her 75th birthday and he 37 years of leading english dance in the boston area and in many other places, to- mes-at- world.std.com i will gather them, print them and they will be a surprise, as peggy vermilya has suggested. please feel free to inundate me! i will be able to print out all that reach me by next tuesday evening. mary stafford ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 17 jun 2000 08:16:58 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 17 jun 2000 11:16:03 -0400 (edt) from: jbgrun-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: music for islesboro dance to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit lucy has asked me to post the full complement of musicians for the islesboro, maine, dance, taking place on saturday august 19th. (details posted previously.) jonathan jensen, accompanied by barbara greenberg and dan beerbohm. ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 19 jun 2000 07:46:38 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 19 jun 2000 09:45:47 -0500 (cdt) from: j-sivier-at- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: results of discussion on joint contra-english dances? to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i've been asked to lead an evening of contra and english dances in ann arbor on the 29th of july. it will probably be divided such that the first half is primarily english (though i may slip a contra-ish dance or two in) and the second half is contras and squares (though i may put a few englishesque dances in there). i followed the discussion a couple of weeks ago about joint events of this type and was wondering if there had been any consensus as to things to emphasize (or watch out for) when programming an evening like this and possibly some suggestions of dances that would highlight the positive features of ecd and contra. perhaps the person who originally posed the question could post a short summary of what they gleaned from the discussion? thanks. jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | jonathan sivier |q: how many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-at- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | flight simulation lab |a: it depends on what dance you call. | | beckman institute | | | 405 n. mathews | swmdg - single white male | | urbana, il 61801 | dance gypsy | | work: 217/244-1923 | | | home: 217/359-8225 | have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | home page url: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 19 jun 2000 08:22:08 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 19 jun 2000 11:19:27 -0400 from: sheila beardslee bosworth reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: dance in shakespeare program, 6/20-22 in boston to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit english country dancers may find this program of interest! [apologies for duplication -- sent to several dance lists] pavane renaissance dance ensemble joins with concordia consort, guest musicians and actors, for this program celebrating shakespeare and his contemporaries. the program features dances from england, france & italy, 1570-1610. this is the third program in the society for historically informed performance's summer 2000 early music series. visit sohip's website for complete details: www.sohip.org tuesdays at 8 pm, st. peter's church, 320 boston post rd, weston wednesdays at 8 pm, st. christopher's church, east rd, hampstead nh thursdays at 8 pm, emmanuel church, 15 newbury street, boston tickets $12 $8 students/seniors pass to all 7 concerts just $65; any 4 concerts $40 info: 617/625-1898 june 20-22 "golden dreams: shakespeare's world in music, dance & verse." the elizabethan world of shakespeare & his contemporaries explored by poet fulke greville, lord brooke, & lady mary sidney, patroness of the arts. music by ferrabosco, holborne, dowland, morley, ward & others dances from 16th & 17th-c. england, france & italy verse by shakespeare, marlowe, fletcher, davies, heywood & others performers: concordia consort (boston recorder society -- audrey benevento, mark maiden, george mastellone & susan pundt, recorders) & pavane renaissance dance ensemble; with guests maria georgakarakou, soprano; richard maloney, lute; rosalind brooks stowe, viola da gamba; actors graham christian & nancy winneg graham christian, author; sheila beardslee, program director posted for sohip by sheila bosworth sheilabb-at- earthlink.net ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 19 jun 2000 10:05:10 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 19 jun 2000 13:07:33 -0400 from: marge cramton reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: results of discussion on joint contra-english dances? to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi, jonathan, glad to hear you're coming in july! this event is one of a series of 5th saturday dances that have been using the consistent format of starting (an hour earlier than our usual contra dances) with english country and then turning into a real contra dance just a little later than the regular dance would usually start, giving about an hour and a half of english. the folks that put this series on came up with this format a couple of years ago and they have been working really well. solves the lack of a contra high problem that was pointed out in this discussion; introduces a little english to the contra dancers if they come early or on time; and lets the strictly english dancers go home after the english part if they want to. given the time is short and skills very mixed, there's a limit on how intricate you want to get with the english dances. people don't want to spend extended teaching time, but if you can work in gentle style points as you call, some people can hear them. generally, we've been getting about 40 people or so for the english part, many of whom are very skilled, which is a great turnout and still gives dancers room to move in our small hall. and most stay to contra dance, when it will be much more crowded. these events have also given the band who organizes them a reason to learn the ecd music, which is another nice thing for the community. (and at the end of september, bare necessities will be coming to ann arbor for a mostly english country weekend; the fudge group that's organizing it is working with this same 5th saturday group to provide a raucous saturday night english/contra party in this format as part of the weekend. more info coming soon on that.) see you in july. marge cramton at 09:45 am 6/19/00 -0500, you wrote: > i've been asked to lead an evening of contra and english dances in >ann arbor on the 29th of july. it will probably be divided such that the >first half is primarily english (though i may slip a contra-ish dance or >two in) and the second half is contras and squares (though i may put a few >englishesque dances in there). i followed the discussion a couple of >weeks ago about joint events of this type and was wondering if there had >been any consensus as to things to emphasize (or watch out for) when >programming an evening like this and possibly some suggestions of dances >that would highlight the positive features of ecd and contra. perhaps the >person who originally posed the question could post a short summary of >what they gleaned from the discussion? > > thanks. > >jonathan > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >| jonathan sivier |q: how many angels can dance on the | >| j-sivier-at- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | >| flight simulation lab |a: it depends on what dance you call. | >| beckman institute | | >| 405 n. mathews | swmdg - single white male | >| urbana, il 61801 | dance gypsy | >| work: 217/244-1923 | | >| home: 217/359-8225 | have shoes, will dance. | >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >| home page url: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 19 jun 2000 15:57:09 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 19 jun 2000 18:55:57 -0400 from: jhmturner reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: combining contras with english to: "internet:ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu" message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i was saddened to see the response below re combining contras with english. maybe its this sort of approach which makes it so difficult for contra dancers to 'cross the divide'. there has to be give and take from both dance communities if the transition is to be achieved. all the dances have a common root and perhaps it is this aspect which should be stressed. we are talking about 'english country dance' aren't we? or should it be retitled 'english country dance as danced in america'. john turner message text written by internet:ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu >subject: re: combining contras with english message-id: in a message dated 6/12/0 2:07:02 pm, you wrote: here i would agree with bruce hamilton, or perhaps it was someone else, who pointed out that this is more likely to make contra dancers think that ecd is just like contra, but not as much fun. (which is not to suggest that these are not wonderful dances.) carl friedman ------------------------------ < ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 19 jun 2000 21:09:23 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: tue, 20 jun 2000 00:08:18 -0400 (edt) from: cf1125-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: combining contras with english to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit in a message dated 6/19/00 10:58:12 pm, jhmturner-at- compuserve.com writes: > allow me to clarify my prior comment. i'm not sure what the "approach" is that john turner is distressed about, but, first, let me be clear that i was not criticizing the dances currently being done in england. i was simply pointing out that if one were to try to interest american contra dancers in doing ecd by using modern english dances, one could expect to elicit the counterproductive response referred to above. this is not because there is anything wrong with the dances in question, or the result of some terrible failing on the part of american contra dancers. i have been doing american contra dancing for over 20 years, ecd for nearly as long, and have done my share of the modern english compositions. this is just my impression of the likes and dislikes of american contra dancers and their likely response. as was pointed out by someone else, it would probably be more productive to use english dances that are distinctly different from american contra dances. but, of course, tastes vary, and are as numerous as there are dancers, so this is just my impression of what i have observed on the whole. carl friedman ================================================================================ archive-date: tue, 20 jun 2000 17:57:04 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: tue, 20 jun 2000 21:23:15 -0400 from: allison m thompson reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: english & contra, mixed, etc. and again to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain content-transfer-encoding: 7bit about how to mix the two in one evening .... oh, dear, i already sense that on this bulletin board i have projected a persona that is 1) overly simplistic and 2) overly naive, but if the 1a) band has fun and the 2a) caller has fun then, regardless of the program, i don't see how the crowd can't help but have fun. so, in my, simplistic view, there's no magic one-size-fits-all formula. some people and bands can mix genres and some just can't and the challenge (especiallly for callers but as well for bands ( who, or possibly, grammatically-speaking, which, must learn to declare whether or not they are capable of projecting fun in both or either genres)), is to figure out (through, alas, expensive trial-and-error) who matches up with whom. plus, no matter which caller and which band and which format that are planned, sometimes you can't win anyway. i remember (a mere few years ago) being at a wonderful concert presented by silly wizard on the very evening in which most of the english-speaking world were going to discover who it was who shot j.r. and there were only us five non-tv-addict die-hards in the audience and it wouldn't have mattered whether it was god himself playing that night--that was all the people they were going to get that evening anyway no matter what! so put away your dance cards! nothing in life is predictable! go with your instincts! have fun! yours (in naiveite) truly, allison thompson http:www.musicsleuth.com.sqpress ________________________________________________________________ you're paying too much for the internet! juno now offers free internet access! try it today - there's no risk! for your free software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ================================================================================ archive-date: wed, 21 jun 2000 03:00:47 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: wed, 21 jun 2000 02:59:55 -0700 (pdt) from: andrew peterson reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: english & contra, mixed, etc. and again to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --- allison m thompson wrote: > ...(a mere few years ago) being at a wonderful concert > presented by silly wizard on the very evening in which most of > the english-speaking world were going to discover who it was > who shot j.r. and there were only us five non-tv-addict > die-hards in the audience and it wouldn't have mattered whether > it was god himself playing that night--that was all the people > they were going to get that evening anyway no matter what! > i would have been at that concert with you. i *still* don't know who shot jr and i'm not dying of curiousity. i certainly wouldn't give up silly wizard or a dance to find out. just one of the millions of bits of useless trivia that i've missed because other things are more relevant. andy in portland __________________________________________________ do you yahoo!? send instant messages with yahoo! messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 22 jun 2000 07:26:28 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 22 jun 2000 07:25:39 -0700 from: bob archer subject: combining contras with english to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: content-transfer-encoding: 7bit jhmturner wrote: > we are talking about 'english country dance' aren't we? or should it be > retitled 'english country dance as danced in america'. i'd agree with john here. whether or not we want to retitle anything, what actually exists is: english dance as done in england english dance as done in america ( and the other two possibilities: american dance as done in england american dance as done in america ) you can see the commonalities between them, you can tell they're descended from the same tradition, but there are some differences as well. bob ---------------------------------------------------------- -- bob archer bob-at- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 23 jun 2000 00:05:17 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 23 jun 2000 02:03:45 -0500 from: charlene charette reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: mage on a cree to: english country dance list message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit does anyone know of a recording of mage on a cree that has 14 repeats instead of sharp's 12? thanks, --charlene -- never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. -- free book searches (out-of-print, hard-to-find, foreign, used, new) - mailto:findbook-at- flash.net ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 23 jun 2000 02:09:59 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 23 jun 2000 02:07:25 -0700 from: ric goldman reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: mage on a cree to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit fwiw the merrie pryanksters in california have used lilliburlero as the tune for mage for over 20 years, and it tends to work much better for them. thanx, ric goldman timelord01-at- sprynet.com http://connect.to/ric > -----original message----- > from: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu > [mailto:owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu]on behalf of charlene > charette > sent: friday, june 23, 2000 12:04 am > to: english country dance list > subject: mage on a cree > > > does anyone know of a recording of mage on a cree that has 14 repeats > instead of sharp's 12? > > thanks, > --charlene ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 23 jun 2000 11:04:39 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 23 jun 2000 13:02:53 -0500 from: charlene charette reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: mage on a cree to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: ric goldman wrote: > > fwiw the merrie pryanksters in california have used lilliburlero as the tune > for mage for over 20 years, and it tends to work much better for them. while i'd prefer to have the original tune, this may be a solution in the meantime. i'll have to see how long my version of lilibulero is. thanks, --charlene ================================================================================ archive-date: sat, 24 jun 2000 13:24:14 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: sat, 24 jun 2000 16:23:15 -0400 (edt) from: rwinslow22-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: subscribe to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit please subscribe: rwinslowdance-at- aol.com aka rachel winslow thank you ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 26 jun 2000 12:51:01 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 26 jun 2000 12:50:06 -0700 (pdt) from: alan winston - ssrl central computing subject: microsoft pays inappropriate tribute to our founder to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ecders -- an informant who wishes to be unidentified here has passed this on to me: ---- microsoft has just given the development environment for .net ("dot-net"--their new internet-based application architecture, once known as ngws) the moniker "c#", pronounced "c-sharp". as if it's c++ but more so. urrgh. a pointer: http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/nextgen/technology/csharpintro.asp ----- my comments: i have somewhat more of an idea now of how those javanese people who care might feel about the names of java and javascript. really, couldn't the redmond monolith have more appropriately named it "c**" (which is either "c raised to a higher power" in basic or a fairly standard way of indicating a comment line in fortran, or, just as well, "c++++", pronounced "c doubleplusgood"? -- alan =============================================================================== alan winston --- winston-at- ssrl.slac.stanford.edu disclaimer: i speak only for myself, not slac or ssrl phone: 650/926-3056 physical mail to: ssrl -- slac bin 69, po box 4349, stanford, ca 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 26 jun 2000 13:18:26 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 26 jun 2000 16:17:31 -0400 (edt) from: eric arnold reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: microsoft pays inappropriate tribute to our founder to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on mon, 26 jun 2000, alan winston - ssrl central computing wrote: > really, couldn't the redmond monolith have more appropriately named it > "c**" (which is either "c raised to a higher power" in basic or a fairly > standard way of indicating a comment line in fortran, or, just as well, > "c++++", pronounced "c doubleplusgood"? or perhaps b- ? or d+ ? eric ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 26 jun 2000 13:40:08 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: mon, 26 jun 2000 16:39:12 -0400 from: "susan r. lorand" reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: microsoft pays inappropriate tribute to our founder to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on mon, 26 jun 2000, eric arnold wrote: > on mon, 26 jun 2000, alan winston - ssrl central computing wrote: > > really, couldn't the redmond monolith have more appropriately named it > > "c**" (which is either "c raised to a higher power" in basic or a fairly > > standard way of indicating a comment line in fortran, or, just as well, > > "c++++", pronounced "c doubleplusgood"? > > or perhaps b- ? or d+ ? > > eric d-flat? --susie lorand ================================================================================ archive-date: mon, 26 jun 2000 14:08:25 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: wed, 28 jun 2000 14:09:34 -0700 from: marian phillips reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: microsoft pays inappropriate tribute to our founder to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i think we should all write stiff letters to microsoft, and threaten to sue. yeah, and call a press conference! belligerently, marian phillips ================================================================================ archive-date: tue, 27 jun 2000 18:17:32 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: tue, 27 jun 2000 18:16:18 -0700 from: south bay english country dance reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: public performance roundup to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit good day all. a (long) while ago i asked for some tips and suggestions as to how and what to put in a public performance of ecd. i would like now to thank those who shared their wisdom and experience (in cronological order): helen davenport melissande de manche visctoria bestock alan winston. for them, who might wonder what good their suggestions did, and for anyone else who might wonder what we did and how it went, there is a brief report (with photographs) at http://www.geocities.com/vienna/choir/2231/spedrodemo/spedrowriteup.html thank you to all for your help, encouragement and support. giovanni de amici ================================================================================ archive-date: wed, 28 jun 2000 17:17:02 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: wed, 28 jun 2000 17:16:05 -0700 (pdt) from: alan winston - ssrl central computing subject: "mars and venus" - anybody been able to sort it out? to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ecders -- i'm trying to suss out mars and venus, as given in fallibroome, volume 4. (it's a nice tune, and the title makes it appropriate for the regency "natural philosophers' symposium and frolick" (early-1800s science fair and dance) we're putting on at the end of july. < http://www.geocities.com/vienna/strasse/1815/scifair1.html > for additional information on that. mr. bentley doesn't break down actions into number of measures or counts; here's what he has for the first a music (unless i've made a transcription error): ------------------------ a1: 1s cross, go below the 2s (who move up), half figure 8 up through the 2s. 1s turn two hands once round. ------------------------ at a tempo that works comfortably for the rest of the dance, we find no time for that "1s turn two hands once round." cross, cast, half-figure 8 is most typically 8 bars of music everywhere else. have any of you gotten this to work? am i missing something obvious? [the dance works fine if you just drop the two-hand turn, of course, but if there's a 'right' way to do this, i'd like to know it.] thanks, -- alan =============================================================================== alan winston --- winston-at- ssrl.slac.stanford.edu disclaimer: i speak only for myself, not slac or ssrl phone: 650/926-3056 physical mail to: ssrl -- slac bin 69, po box 4349, stanford, ca 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 29 jun 2000 08:10:11 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 29 jun 2000 08:10:34 -0700 from: marian phillips reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: "mars and venus" - anybody been able to sort it out? to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit are these the same people who came up with the cyprian's ball? who keeps thinking up all these great themes for parties? marian phillips ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 29 jun 2000 08:37:21 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 29 jun 2000 11:36:11 -0400 (edt) from: bhfrancis-at- aol.com reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: "mars and venus" to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit alan -- christine helwig taught this dance in new york about fifteen years ago. her solution to the choreographically crammed a music was to have the inactive couples move up *just a little bit.* the timing for the a music was something like: (bars 1-6) active couple cross over, go below and 1/2 figure eight (bars 7-8) active couple 2-hand turn any way you look at it, it's a mad dash. the dance did not endear itself to the ny community . . . although the tune is very nice. beverly francis ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 29 jun 2000 09:01:39 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 29 jun 2000 15:25:02 +0200 from: m sheffield reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: american square to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i know this is not really the right list, but ... if anyone can help me find some pleasant recordings (preferably available on the western edge of the ocean) for traditional amercian square dances (the kind that were in fashion 30 or more years ago), i'd be grateful for your help. martin, in grenoble, france. http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm (dance groups, some new dances ...) ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 29 jun 2000 09:37:25 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 29 jun 2000 09:42:10 -0700 from: paul/victoria bestock reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: american square to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi martin, i've got a tape which i got through cdss (sorry, martin, wrong end of the ocean) of the singing calls i did in the late 50's, early 60's. they are music only, with the calls written out in a booklet, so that you can use the tape for your back-up band and call the dance yourself. i think its called "smoke on the water." i think this particular collection is all singing calls. i got it only a few years ago when i was teaching high-schoolers to dance so it's probably still available. victoria, in seattle check out our web site, at http://www.oz.net/~bestockp/ read about our trip to the rockies..... see the portfolio from northwest new year's camp..... ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 29 jun 2000 11:47:46 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 29 jun 2000 11:46:49 -0700 (pdt) from: alan winston - ssrl central computing subject: re: american square to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit victoria writes: i've got a tape which i got through cdss (sorry, martin, wrong end of the ocean) of the singing calls i did in the late 50's, early 60's. they are music only, with the calls written out in a booklet, so that you can use the tape for your back-up band and call the dance yourself. i think its called "smoke on the water." i think this particular collection is all singing calls. i got it only a few years ago when i was teaching high-schoolers to dance so it's probably still available. if i'm not totally confused, there are two versions of this one tape, one with singing calls (by the excellent bob dalsemer), one without. it might be worth martin's while to get both, practice with the one with calls, and use the other. http://www.cdss.org/sales has lots of good stuff of this kind. (also, the yankee ingenuity tape "heating up the hall" features tony parkes calling "the grapevine twist" square. a very danceable, listenable tape, although most of it is contra rather than squares.) -- alan =============================================================================== alan winston --- winston-at- ssrl.slac.stanford.edu disclaimer: i speak only for myself, not slac or ssrl phone: 650/926-3056 physical mail to: ssrl -- slac bin 69, po box 4349, stanford, ca 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 29 jun 2000 12:06:59 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 29 jun 2000 12:06:03 -0700 (pdt) from: alan winston - ssrl central computing subject: re: "mars and venus" - anybody been able to sort it out? to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit marian phillips wrote: are these the same people who came up with the cyprian's ball? who keeps thinking up all these great themes for parties? the natural philosophers' symposium and frolick is put on by the bay area english regency society (baers), the same people who put on the cyprians' ball every year for the last dozen. vanessa schnatmeier and i co-founded the group when i moved up here in 1985, before i was aware of mainstream ecd. i think cyprians' was suggested to us by cathleen myers, who went on to found peers (which last weekend presented the toontown hop, a mostly-couple-dance ball to music used in or associated with cartoons, including the supercalifragilistic expialadocius one-step, and (ecd content at last!) galopede to "the ride of the valkyries" (as heard, briefly, in "what's opera, doc") and sir roger de coverley to "the sorceror's apprentice" (as heard in fantasia), which worked beautifully.) the geniuses behind the natural philosophers' were the people giggling on the sofa at the english dance you attended and i called last night, vanessa schnatmeier and carrie dougherty. other themes baers has used for c.1800 (plus or minus 20 years) balls: a horatio hornblower ball set on shipboard, a low-rent ball at thieves' kitchen (lots of traditional dances), a manor-house celebration of victory over napoleon, the madison inaugural, the return to washington city of lewis & clark, a public ball at bath, and recreations of dances from "pride and prejudice" and "emma." (i can't get the other organizers enthusiastic about an "opening of the erie canal" ball, despite having a description of the cool stuff they did at the real one, including a "marriage of the waters" ceremony.) after the symposium and frolick on july 29, the next big event is a "lafayette's return" ball on september 30. (in 1824, lafayette, hero of the american revolution, came back to the us, accompanied by his son, and received the thanks of a grateful nation. this gives us license to do dances from the 1770s forward to 1824, so waltzes are quite legitimate (for once).) despite there being a bay area city named lafayette, these events will both be in kensington, at the arlington community church. http://www.geocities.com/vienna/strasse/1815 for more about baers. -- alan =============================================================================== alan winston --- winston-at- ssrl.slac.stanford.edu disclaimer: i speak only for myself, not slac or ssrl phone: 650/926-3056 physical mail to: ssrl -- slac bin 69, po box 4349, stanford, ca 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 29 jun 2000 12:20:04 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 29 jun 2000 12:19:09 -0700 (pdt) from: barbara ruth reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: "mars and venus" - anybody been able to sort it out? to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --- alan winston - ssrl central computing wrote: > mostly-couple-dance ball to > music used in or associated with cartoons, including the > supercalifragilistic > expialadocius one-step, and (ecd content at last!) galopede to "the > ride of the > valkyries" (as heard, briefly, in "what's opera, doc") and sir > roger de > coverley to "the sorceror's apprentice" (as heard in fantasia), > which worked > beautifully.) i was going to protest that "mary poppins" was not a cartoon, but then remembered the excursion into the chalk drawing, so you're okay there. this sounds like a delightful event. i can't get the other organizers > enthusiastic about > an "opening of the erie canal" ball, despite having a description > of the cool > stuff they did at the real one, including a "marriage of the > waters" ceremony. and fried herman's "the severn bore" would be such a natural for that. actually "the severn bore" might better be described as a passionate affair of the waters, but you get the idea. ===== do you know about the hunger site? sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the united nations world food programme for every visitor to the site. no purchases - all you do is click on the site. visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ do you yahoo!? get yahoo! mail - free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 29 jun 2000 12:36:02 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 29 jun 2000 12:35:02 -0700 (pdt) from: james langdell subject: re: "mars and venus" - anybody been able to sort it out? to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit alan winston wrote: > i think > cyprians' was suggested to us by cathleen myers, who went on to found peers > (which last weekend presented the toontown hop, a mostly-couple-dance ball to > music used in or associated with cartoons, including the supercalifragilistic > expialadocius one-step, and (ecd content at last!) galopede to "the ride of the > valkyries" (as heard, briefly, in "what's opera, doc") and sir roger de > coverley to "the sorceror's apprentice" (as heard in fantasia), which worked > beautifully.) i'm the leader of the divertimento dance orchestra, which played for the toon town hop, as well as for bay area english regency society balls. here's a little more detail on that sequence of tunes to traditional dances. the galopede was to portions of the "william tell overture". the sir roger de coverley sequence of tunes was "sorceror's apprentice", "ride of the valkyries" (aka "kill the wabbit!"), "mexican hat dance", "irish washerwoman", and (accelerating from jig meter) the conclusion of liszt's "hungarian rhapsody #2". i was sadistically proud, during the grand march, of waiting until the dancers were tightly wound into a spiral before cuing the band to switch to "it's a small world". --james langdell jamesc-at- eng.sun.com or langdell-at- earthlink.net ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 29 jun 2000 12:57:41 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 29 jun 2000 12:58:54 -0700 from: marian phillips reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: "mars and venus" - anybody been able to sort it out? to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit alan writes: >>at the english dance you attended and i called last night, hi martin, > >i've got a tape which i got through cdss (sorry, martin, wrong end of the >ocean) of the singing calls i did in the late 50's, early 60's. they are >music only, with the calls written out in a booklet, so that you can use >the tape for your back-up band and call the dance yourself. i think its >called "smoke on the water." i think this particular collection is all >singing calls. i got it only a few years ago when i was teaching >high-schoolers to dance so it's probably still available. > >victoria, in seattle > > > >check out our web site, at http://www.oz.net/~bestockp/ >read about our trip to the rockies..... >see the portfolio from northwest new year's camp..... > ================================================================================ archive-date: thu, 29 jun 2000 17:10:52 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: thu, 29 jun 2000 17:09:56 -0700 (pdt) from: andrew peterson reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: "mars and venus" - anybody been able to sort it out? to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --- marian phillips wrote: >...i didn't realize quite how dependent i am on > eye contact to > get cues for the next move, until i had to dance with people > whose eyes were > simply dark hollows floating in a blurry oval above their > shoulders. i kept > coming in a beat or two late, and i don't think it was just > because i was > scared of the dark hollows . . . > ...and some of those dark hollows are ever so much deeper than others. andy in portland __________________________________________________ do you yahoo!? get yahoo! mail - free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 30 jun 2000 01:42:28 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 30 jun 2000 10:38:58 +0200 from: m sheffield reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: american square to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit thanks for your help. i'll be checking the various leads you have given me. martin, in grenoble, france. http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm (dance groups, some new dances ...) ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 30 jun 2000 03:44:32 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 30 jun 2000 12:39:08 +0200 from: philippe callens reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: re: "mars and venus" - anybody been able to sort it out? to: ecd-at- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit references: i consider "mars and venus" a typical bentley interpretation. he has good taste for interesting tunes, but fairly often is not too clear in his notation; phrasing is a vague point. so let's have a look at the original text (from the dancing master, the third volume, c.1728): "longways for as many as will note: the first strain is to be play'd twice, and the last but once. the first couple cross over and figure thro' the third couple and turn. the second couple do the same. the first man change places with his partner, then cross over below the second couple and turn single, then right and left quite round, then lead thro' the 2nd couple and cast off, then right and left with the third couple quite round." that may be helpful. notice that the b-music (16 bars) is not repeated. i never used bentley's interpretation, but did use one that i found in "georgian delights", published 1990 by the dolmetsch historical dance society (with a recording). i taught it for a group of historical dancers in ghent in 1997. the dolmetsch interpretation is quite close to the original, and uses a fleuret step, say a pas de bourree. the music is played slowly (mm=80), but that is not slow when one uses the pas de bourree. that step fits this baroque tune as a glove. philippe callens antwerp, belgium ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 30 jun 2000 03:52:18 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 30 jun 2000 12:53:47 +0200 from: philippe callens reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: between the bays dance camp to: ecd discussion list message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii content-transfer-encoding: 7bit if any of the subscribers of this list are planning on attending this camp in traverse city, mich., please send me a message privately, so that we can also connect in the non-digital world. thanks! philippe callens ================================================================================ archive-date: fri, 30 jun 2000 07:35:51 pst sender: owner-ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu date: fri, 30 jun 2000 10:32:42 -0400 from: "pearl, dan" reply-to: ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu subject: cds boston centre ecd collection: volume 3 is now available to: "'ecd-at- playford.slac.stanford.edu'" message-id: mime-version: 1.0 content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit as we speak, volume 3 of the cds boston english country dance collection, entitled "simple pleasures", is on its way to the dealers (who i'm sure would be happy to take your orders). simple pleasures is a cd of straightforward, accessible, dances, all played in wonderful extemporaneous arrangements by bare necessities. the selections are: the ragg, the dressed ship, farewell marian, the spaniard, christina, auretti's dutch skipper, draper's garden, the physical snob, freeford gardens, i care not for these ladies, lovely nancy, jacob hall's jig, handel with care, yellow stockings, hole in the wall see the website: http://www.cds-boston.org/ecdc/ for more information, including mp3 sound samples. the dealers who have ordered this item (in addition to the performers and the producer, gene murrow) are cdss, cotswold music, and the folk arts center of new england. other dealers who have stocked our series in the past and will likely be placing an order soon are andy's front hall, and anglo-american dance service. volumes 1 and 2 of this series are also still available from all the dealers listed above. look around labor day for volume 4: "modern treasures"! on behalf of the boston centre recording committee, i thank you, the ecd mailing list subscribers, for your support of this project. dan pearl -- stratus computer inc. dan_pearl-at- stratus.com

david,phild Pr�c�dent 334 Pr�c�dent 333 Pr�c�dent 332 Pr�c�dent 331 Pr�c�dent 330 Pr�c�dent 329 Pr�c�dent 328 Pr�c�dent 327 Pr�c�dent 326 Pr�c�dent 325 Pr�c�dent 324 Pr�c�dent 323 Pr�c�dent 322 Pr�c�dent 321 Pr�c�dent 320 Pr�c�dent 319 Pr�c�dent 318 Pr�c�dent 317 Pr�c�dent 316 Pr�c�dent 315 Pr�c�dent 314 Pr�c�dent 313 Pr�c�dent 312 Pr�c�dent 311 Pr�c�dent 310 Pr�c�dent 309 Pr�c�dent 308 Pr�c�dent 307 Pr�c�dent 306 Pr�c�dent 305 Suivant 336 Suivant 337 Suivant 338 Suivant 339 Suivant 340 Suivant 341 Suivant 342 Suivant 343 Suivant 344 Suivant 345 Suivant 346 Suivant 347 Suivant 348 Suivant 349 Suivant 350 Suivant 351 Suivant 352 Suivant 353 Suivant 354 Suivant 355 Suivant 356 Suivant 357 Suivant 358 Suivant 359 Suivant 360 Suivant 361 Suivant 362 Suivant 363 Suivant 364 Suivant 365